Buyouts

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Buyouts - Can this be done

Created by: willinlisbon

Team: 2023-24 Montreal Canadiens

Initial Creation Date: May 6, 2023

Published: May 6, 2023

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

I've been trying to find information on how many buyouts a team can have at a time? But can't find anything.....so if anyone knows please share a comment.

Buying out both Armia and Hoff would have a positive ripple effect across on so many levels.

1a. Cap space. Coming season the habs woud save.
Hoff. 3.333M
Armia 3.366M
For a season where the cap is only expected to go up 1M that's a total of close 7 million in cap space to use

1b. Cap space. Moving into the 24/25 and 25/26 seasons ... analysts are predicting the cap to have significant increases
24/25 - approximately going up 4 million
25/26 - approximately going up 5 to 6 million
This means we reap the savings in the first year when the cap is tight and continue to reap the savings as the cap grows considerably over the best few years.

2a. Roster spots. Making room for Youngs like RHP and Ylonen.

2b. Roster spot. Along with the savings mentioned in point 1a. This could allow Hughes to make another Monahan type deal and obtain a 1st round pick in a future draft in exchange for a salary dump from another team. Added bonus if he can then gain more picks by flipping said player at the TDL.

You also have things like, contract spots, ability to retain salary on other deals, etc..

I just think this would make the most sense if possible.

Heck
If we can add Edmundson to that I'd do it it as well.

Free Agent Signings

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Caufield, Cole	4	$6,500,000
Dubois, Pierre-Luc	8	$8,500,000
Harvey-Pinard, Rafaël	3	$1,500,000
Pezzetta, Michael	2	$1,000,000
Ylönen, Jesse	3	$1,000,000
Teasdale, Joël	2	$850,000

UFA		YEARS	CAP HIT
Monahan, Sean		1	$2,000,000

Trades

MTL

Dubois, Pierre-Luc [RFA Rights]

WPG

Karl Alzner: $833,333
Mike Hoffman: $1,166,667
Joel Armia: $33,333
Joel Edmundson: $2,708,334

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2023
2024
2025

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$83,500,000	$70,372,500	$1,170,000	$4,195,000	$13,127,500

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Caufield, Cole $6,500,000$6,500,000 LW, RW UFA - 8	Suzuki, Nick $7,875,000$7,875,000 C UFA - 7	Dach, Kirby $3,362,500$3,362,500 C, RW RFA - 3
Slafkovsky, Juraj $950,000$950,000 ($3,500,000$4M) RW, LW RFA - 2	Dubois, Pierre-Luc $8,500,000$8,500,000 C UFA - 8	Anderson, Josh $5,500,000$5,500,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 4
Harvey-Pinard, Rafaël $1,500,000$1,500,000 LW, RW RFA - 2	Monahan, Sean $2,000,000$2,000,000 C, LW, RW UFA - 1	Gallagher, Brendan $6,500,000$6,500,000 RW, LW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 4
Pitlick, Rem $1,100,000$1,100,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Evans, Jake $1,700,000$1,700,000 C UFA - 2	Ylönen, Jesse $1,000,000$1,000,000 RW, LW RFA - 1
Pezzetta, Michael $1,000,000$1,000,000 LW, RW UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Matheson, Michael $4,875,000$4,875,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 3	Barron, Justin $925,000$925,000 ($275,000$275K) RD RFA - 1	Allen, Jake $1,925,000$1,925,000 G M-NTC UFA - 2
Guhle, Kaiden $863,333$863,333 ($420,000$420K) LD/RD RFA - 2	Savard, David $3,500,000$3,500,000 RD UFA - 2	Montembeault, Samuel $1,000,000$1,000,000 G UFA - 1
Harris, Jordan $1,400,000$1,400,000 LD/RD RFA - 2	Xhekaj, Arber $828,333$828,333 LD/RD RFA - 1	Primeau, Cayden $890,000$890,000 G RFA - 2
	Kovacevic, Johnathan $766,667$766,667 RD UFA - 2

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
		Price, Carey $10,500,000$10,500,000 G NMC UFA - 3

May 6, 2023 at 4:12 p.m.

Stadel

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 3,392

Likes: 2,151

I did not realize that Armia's contract structure was such that the cap hit for his buyout next year would be 33k lol.

Can't help but wonder if someone makes use of that. Obv you have to deal with the fall out after but a tight against the cap team looking to take one more shot at a cup might find use for that.

willinlisbon liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 4:25 p.m.

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 60,027

Likes: 22,964

As a rule, it's just wiser not have buyouts unless a team needs the cap space. In future years, the cap space on the buyouts might be needed Montreal should keep Hoffman and Armia for at the 23/24 season, even if means demoting them to the minors and playing youngsters.

Shanesaw9 and jpsnow13 liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 4:40 p.m.

Ste_Catherine_Street

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 1,718

Likes: 735

Quoting: palhal

yea exactly. It makes no sense to buy them out when we can just put them on waivers and send them to laval.
Armia is the most frustrating player to watch since Beaulieu. looking fwd to him leaving

jpsnow13 liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 4:43 p.m.

MoSeider53

Future Norris guy

Joined: Aug. 2022

Posts: 15,605

Likes: 8,625

Yeah like Pahal suggested, It makes absolutely no sense in buying any one out unless you need the cap space, And Montreal looks fine. So buying out Hoff, Armia and Edmundson makes absolutely zero sense.

Shanesaw9 and jpsnow13 liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 4:44 p.m.

Shanesaw9

Habs 2010

Joined: May 2020

Posts: 1,569

Likes: 979

Edited May 6, 2023 at 4:52 p.m.

You would save more cap space by sending Edmundson to Laval or by retaining 50% in a trade...

All these buyouts you're talking about push cap issues further down the road... sure the cap will go up but in 3 or 4 years when all of our young guys get paid and we actually want to contend, I would rather not be hit with an unnecessary $1.4M cap hit when we could have been finished with Joel Armia.

I would buyout Hoffman, that's it.

Edit: If necessary Armia can be bought out the season after... which would come with lesser penalties than buying him out this year (when comparing the last 2-3 years... if there is no need from the cap space this year then there is no gain).

HabsCanucks, ohmyjlord and jpsnow13 liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 4:44 p.m.

willinlisbon

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2020

Posts: 299

Likes: 91

Quoting: palhal

I understand your logic about the cap space being needed in future years and that's why I mentioned point 1b in my description. The cap is rising significantly in 24/25 season and again in 25/ 26 season. This is what analysts are all projecting.

But let add more to this point.
My ACGM is 11 MIL under the cap for next season. That's with price on LTIR

During the seasons while the cap is going up significantly ...we also have contracts coming off the books.

Ie Evans, Pitlick, kovacevic, Allen, Savard, Monahan
That's almost 13 MIL coming off the books between the 24/25 and 25/26 seasons. On top of the projected 9 to 10 MiL cap increase.
Kinda makes sense to me when were only the hook for 4MiL in dead cap space those seanons.

May 6, 2023 at 4:52 p.m.

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 60,027

Likes: 22,964

Quoting: willinlisbon

I tend to disagree with the math, when folks say "The cap is going up, and in this case 13m is coming off the books.
Well when the cap goes up, players get more money across the board, It just isn't free money
And money coming off the book. Well those players have to be replaced, and that costs cap, and if better players replace them, that might cost more than 13m.
Bettman has never been honest in his predictions for the NHL cap. He always over estimates it. Hey I hope it goes up a lot......that would could for the everyone associated with the NHL. But I certainly wouldn't screw up my future cap relaying on what Bettman. says.

drambui and Shanesaw9 liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 5:08 p.m.

ohmyjlord

Joined: Sep. 2017

Posts: 611

Likes: 498

Quoting: Shanesaw9

This. All of this.

Shanesaw9 liked this.

May 6, 2023 at 6:53 p.m.

jpsnow13

You know nothing JS

Joined: Jan. 2017

Posts: 7,073

Likes: 4,450

As many people explained, you dont do buyouts in advance but as late as possible only when you actually need the capspace. (Putting aside when you want to get rid of a guy for chemistry reasons).

MTL doesnt need capspace next season, so it makes no sense to save some of Hoffman or big Ed caphits now but keep them on the books the following year.

IMO Armia will gain trade value for a contender as his contract's term diminish, but I'm not getting in this conversation here.

The real buyout talk is Gallagher. It's just a matter of time.

May 7, 2023 at 2:16 a.m.

#10

willinlisbon

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2020

Posts: 299

Likes: 91

Quoting: palhal

Bettman is never really that far off his predicted cap increases. But let's say he is off by 1 to 2 MIL over those two years......there is still 13 MIL coming off the books.

And to address your other point.
Those players should be replaced by our current prospect pool.
In 2 to 3 years guys like Maillioux, Hutson, Engstrom, Roy, Beck, Kidney, Heinneman, Mesar......the list goes on.
Should be making their steps into the NHL and all will be on team friendly entry level deals which certainly won't come close to the 13MIL coming off the books.

The point I'm trying to emphasize here is that this, like other posts in this thread, are all concernded about salary cap implications in a few years...

And the math simply shows it won't be an issue at all

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Forums/Armchair-GM

Buyouts - Can this be done

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