So here’s my question:

Our biggest issue last year and the year before was defense. If that was our biggest issue why has there been such little improvement to change it?

Fowler - Gudas
Hagg - Drysdale
Lacombe - Helleson

Is not it. We’re going to consistently sit at the bottom of the league again this year because we’re so hesitant to at least try and make moves.

@OldNYIFan
@GeneralLandro
@GiggyWithGibby

I feel like if we can try and trade for someone like Andrew Peeke to pair with whatever youngster we have playing LD3 and Forbort or someone like that it will be a big improvement

Peeke for a 3rd & Forbort for a 6th ??

I think we get those moves after at least Z is resigned

Is that defense better than what we wheeled out last year? Yes, I think it is.

Is it good enough? No, it's not.

Absolutely need a LD2 and RD3 if not RD1

I think Gudas is a stout upgrade on Shattenkirk.

Haag is a minor to moderate upgrade on Benoit.

But that still doesn't address the subtractions of Lindholm and Manson. Maybe Gudas can play Manson's role, at which point were still down a Shattenkirk replacement. Maybe Helleson is a good as shatty was last season, but it's not going to be much of an improvement.

Maybe this group can gel really well and play better than their raw stats. I know chemistry was a big issue last season on the D. Kulikov and Fowler seemed to find a stride together, but everyone we paired klingberg with was screwed, and Shattenkirk continuously turned over the puck thinking he had his man there to pick up the short pass from the boards when he got pinched.

But for this season, who is left? Carolina, Columbus, Calgary, and Buffalo are all carrying extra D at the moment, not sure if they're looking to move any, but we don't have trade relationships with any of them at the moment.

Toronto and Tampa are the only teams not cap compliant to start the season (using LTIR). Several teams blew their loads last season with regards to adding, so I don't know what teams are looking to move out a decent but over the hill D to make salary room somewhere else. Boston needs a 1C, but are capped out, short of loosing Lindholm they have no money for one, and don't really have the draft capital either to buy one with retention.

Who's even left in UFA, I don't think there's anyone I would call an NHLer at this point.

I wouldn’t even say it’s better than last year. Our issue last year was chemistry. This roster doesn’t have more than 2 NHL caliber defensman (Drysdale in the middle).

Based on comments from Sabres and Flyers fans, it sounds like Hagg is just another Beaulieu.

I agree 100%. I think that Pat Verbeek should have made a strong effort at Ryan Graves and Dimitri Orlov. (Maybe he did.) Even Matt Dumba would have been a reasonable add.

Dumba chose AZ because he would be the #1 guy there, including PP time. We wouldn't have given Dumba Any with Fowler, Drysdale, and LaCombe.

Graves signed entirely too reasonable of a deal to have not gone to a "competitor", and Orlov clearly wants to go cup chasing.

Regardless this is going to be a brutal season if we don’t add an additional defenseman (or many) to this roster before training camp

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Not great

Compared to Beaulieu, yeah he is. Is he a good defenseman? No, he's an acceptable depth guy.

Acceptable depth won’t get us any better. Benoit was essentially acceptable depth. We don’t need elite right away but we at least need above average

No, Benoits ADV stats don't compare either, and he spent most of his time attempting to cover for Klingberg on the second pairing.

It seems pretty clear from the Stalock signing that were in for another rough year though. My bet is Verbeek is going waiver wire hunting or hoping to be a third team that takes on some cap.

Hate that. Verbeek needs to get something going here. Can’t depend only on rookies

Can't also block the way up for the rookies either, kind of a catch 22.

Gudas can maybe keep up with Fowler for a season on the top pairing, but he hasn't played huge minutes basically ever. He's the right stylistic partner.

I don't like Hagg on 2nd pair, he should be third pairing, maybe LaCombe plays his off hand there.

Get Drysdale a decent partner and I'll be satisfied. Someone with one season left that just needs to go.

I agree. Gudas can play with Fowler for now, hoping he’ll be okay with all those minutes. Still think finding Drysdale a partner is essential if we want a decent defense this year, honestly would’ve been okay with re-acquiring Kulikov. Hagg should honestly be a 7th D if anything. I’d rather see Lacombe Helleson than Hagg.

I also wouldn’t mind Zellweger with Gudas and Helleson with Fowler. Just need a partner for Drysdale still

Up to this point I have trusted in the Verplan with full faith. I still mostly do, but if this is the D Core we roll out this year, I will be pretty disappointed. In a year where we really need Gibby to have a bounceback and have a rookie goalie who figures to play a good amount of games, you would think fixing the defense would have been the #1 goal. Gudas was a fantastic signing, but our defense has more problems than one guy can fix. Free agency has dried up, trading for a capable top 4 guy means giving up unnecessary assets, and the waiver wire is a huge gamble that may or may not pay off. I will hold judgement for now, but I was really hoping Pat would do more with the defense and help this team be a little bit more competitive. Im not sure I can go through another season like last

I think this sums it up perfectly. Our fanbase is going to go into a complete collapse if they have to deal with another bottom 5 team season this year. I’m still holding on to the fact that Verbeek knows what he’s doing and isn’t just a “Yzerman Jr.” but I think he really has something to prove now.

Ya exactly, I have no issue calling last year a wash. Before the season, we thought we might be reasonably competitive, but ultimately it was our defense that led to us being at the dead bottom of the league. With the talent at the top of the draft, I actually supported Verbeek not doing anything to fix it and keeping Eakins. It felt like the best year in a while to be bad. This year, however, we absolutely MUST show solid signs of improvement. If our defense is ass again and we finish bottom 5 in the league, there will people calling for Verbeek's head. We're starting to enter make or break territory for this rebuild, not that we need to be playoff competitive, but this team needs to find its identity and something to build off of for next year. We have over three pairings of defensive prospects and a lot of talent down the middle, I could honestly care less about having a good pick this year. I think we have a large enough core, its time to start trying to win. Part of me thinks that last year may have been sort of a fluke bad year and we will bounce back. I like the addition of Cronin, really any coaching change would have made me feel good, but this defense is again the big question mark and Im not so confident in it. We shall see...

Completely agree

Verbeek did arguably land the best RHD available in FA, and he added a top 6 RW, both huge needs.

Kulikov came in late last off-season, but teams aren't over the cap in the same way they were last season, and those that aren't aren't exactly flush with defenseman they can get rid of. The teams that do have excess defensemen don't have anything super appealing in my eyes. Buffalo probably loses someone, Calgary is another option, Carolina as well.

Wish more had been done, but there's more to someone signing with us that just money.

Well boys there we go! Part one!

A 4th for Lybushkin feels a bit hefty but can’t complain right now

@GiggyWithGibby

You got a chart for Lybushkin?