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Letting Players Slip Through Waivers - A Rant

Jan. 16, 2018 at 12:41 p.m.
#1
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It is unbelievably ridiculous to me that a player like Paul Martin can pass through waivers cleanly in the modern NHL. Yes, I am perfectly aware that he has a $4.875mil contract, which doesn't expire until the end of next season. Yes, I fully understand that he is 36. And yes, I understand that he has been out with an injury all year, and that he was unable to make the Sharks' lineup after returning to it.

Those things all are entirely irrelevant.

Paul Martin's track record indicates he is a more than useful defenseman. In his age 33 thru 35 seasons, he put up solid possession numbers and 20+ points each season, despite getting limited power play time (at best, he was the #2 defenseman, behind Letang and Burns). He has played in extremely defensive roles (in his age 31, 32, and 34 seasons), while recently playing with Brent Burns in offensive roles (35 and 36). He has played for the United States national team. He has played in both the Western and Eastern conference. He's gotten Lady Byng votes for two of the past three seasons. And, if nothing else, he's been deep into the playoffs with the Sharks before in the 2016 playoffs.

This is not some bottom-pair bum who swaps between being the sixth defenseman and spending time in the AHL. This is not some constantly injured, mediocre forward who only chips in 20 points a year. This is a bona-fide middle-pairing defenseman, for what is admittedly mildly overpriced contract, that just passed through a system where every team could have had added him to their roster for the cost that it takes to have an intern send an email. Was he a fit on every team? No, certainly not. Some teams would certainly find no real way to fit him under the cap. Some teams simply have seven defenseman who they feel deserve to be in the NHL. But what about the teams that don't? Below is a subjective list of every team I see that could and should have reasonably fit him under the cap:

Arizona Coyotes
Buffalo Sabres
LA Kings
Montreal Canadiens
Colorado Avalanche

And these are just all the teams that could and should acquire him WITHOUT making any other salary moves than they already have.

I'm sick and tired of good players (read: Calvin Pickard, Cody Franson, etc) who continually get passed through waivers untouched for inexplicable reasons.

End rant.
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Jan. 16, 2018 at 1:09 p.m.
#2
Below Market Value
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Quoting: tadhockey
It is unbelievably ridiculous to me that a player like Paul Martin can pass through waivers cleanly in the modern NHL. Yes, I am perfectly aware that he has a $4.875mil contract, which doesn't expire until the end of next season. Yes, I fully understand that he is 36. And yes, I understand that he has been out with an injury all year, and that he was unable to make the Sharks' lineup after returning to it.

Those things all are entirely irrelevant.


I'm sorry, but those are not irrelevant factors when it comes to claiming a player on waivers. The fact of the matter is that he played two games, got injured, sat for two months, came back and played in one game, got hurt again, and has lost his spot to a defense core that includes Dylan DeMelo, Joakim Ryan, and Tim Heed. If he can get supplanted by those guys, then he obviously isn't the player that he used to be. He didn't even play on the PK at all in those three games he played. When you're an older defenseman, you're probably going to be expected to bring something that younger players can't, such as special teams play.

Like you said, he is 36 and will be overpaid for the next two seasons. That's not a risk many GMs want to take, especially when they have invested time into their own young defensemen. The older a player gets, the steeper their decline becomes. Martin is 36, so we're beginning to see his decline.

And FYI, the Leafs intentionally let Pickard slip through waivers and then traded for him so they could send him straight to the AHL, rather than risk the potential waiver claim.
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Jan. 16, 2018 at 2:13 p.m.
#3
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I don't think any of that is relevant. I care about three things for waiver players:

1.) can they make my team better right now relative to what my current options are (including AHL)
2.) are they going to be a burden on my cap
3.) will I have to send a player down to compensate for their roster spot.

Anything else is basically subjective to me and I don't care for subjectivity. Objectively, he isn't a good play driver relative to what his cap hit suggests. Pass from me.
Jan. 16, 2018 at 2:31 p.m.
#4
WentWughes
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Quoting: tadhockey
It is unbelievably ridiculous to me that a player like Paul Martin can pass through waivers cleanly in the modern NHL. Yes, I am perfectly aware that he has a $4.875mil contract, which doesn't expire until the end of next season. Yes, I fully understand that he is 36. And yes, I understand that he has been out with an injury all year, and that he was unable to make the Sharks' lineup after returning to it.

Those things all are entirely irrelevant.

Paul Martin's track record indicates he is a more than useful defenseman. In his age 33 thru 35 seasons, he put up solid possession numbers and 20+ points each season, despite getting limited power play time (at best, he was the #2 defenseman, behind Letang and Burns). He has played in extremely defensive roles (in his age 31, 32, and 34 seasons), while recently playing with Brent Burns in offensive roles (35 and 36). He has played for the United States national team. He has played in both the Western and Eastern conference. He's gotten Lady Byng votes for two of the past three seasons. And, if nothing else, he's been deep into the playoffs with the Sharks before in the 2016 playoffs.

This is not some bottom-pair bum who swaps between being the sixth defenseman and spending time in the AHL. This is not some constantly injured, mediocre forward who only chips in 20 points a year. This is a bona-fide middle-pairing defenseman, for what is admittedly mildly overpriced contract, that just passed through a system where every team could have had added him to their roster for the cost that it takes to have an intern send an email. Was he a fit on every team? No, certainly not. Some teams would certainly find no real way to fit him under the cap. Some teams simply have seven defenseman who they feel deserve to be in the NHL. But what about the teams that don't? Below is a subjective list of every team I see that could and should have reasonably fit him under the cap:

Arizona Coyotes
Buffalo Sabres
LA Kings
Montreal Canadiens
Colorado Avalanche

And these are just all the teams that could and should acquire him WITHOUT making any other salary moves than they already have.

I'm sick and tired of good players (read: Calvin Pickard, Cody Franson, etc) who continually get passed through waivers untouched for inexplicable reasons.

End rant.


Mete and Benn are both better than Martin. Yea he may be our 3rd best defensemen but Alzner needs a spot. He Just doesn't fit montreal
Jan. 16, 2018 at 5:17 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: DoctorBreakfast
I'm sorry, but those are not irrelevant factors when it comes to claiming a player on waivers. The fact of the matter is that he played two games, got injured, sat for two months, came back and played in one game, got hurt again, and has lost his spot to a defense core that includes Dylan DeMelo, Joakim Ryan, and Tim Heed. If he can get supplanted by those guys, then he obviously isn't the player that he used to be. He didn't even play on the PK at all in those three games he played. When you're an older defenseman, you're probably going to be expected to bring something that younger players can't, such as special teams play.

Like you said, he is 36 and will be overpaid for the next two seasons. That's not a risk many GMs want to take, especially when they have invested time into their own young defensemen. The older a player gets, the steeper their decline becomes. Martin is 36, so we're beginning to see his decline.


That's exactly why I listed he's not for all teams. There are clearly places where his presence is not worth the risk. Boston, Philadelphia, Anaheim: all of these examples represent the poor locations for Martin at the moment.

However, in places like Arizona and Buffalo, where good defensemen are hard to come by, he fits in well. There's no question in my mind that claiming and attempting to play Paul Martin is more valuable than starting Kevin Connauton or Luke Schenn each night for the Coyotes. Colorado and Montreal both have some acknowledged holes on their back end, and adding Martin, if nothing else but as a potential third-pairing star, is a worthwhile, if risky, bet. LA has even said they aren't comfortable with the defense past their third defender. Martin can potentially be that fourth defender.

I will agree that is a somewhat risky bet, but the fact that he has played three games to me this year, when we have 200+ of evidence from the previous three to say that he is a mid-tier defenseman. Give me the 200+ rather than the three.

Quoting: phillyjabroni
I don't think any of that is relevant. I care about three things for waiver players:

1.) can they make my team better right now relative to what my current options are (including AHL)
2.) are they going to be a burden on my cap
3.) will I have to send a player down to compensate for their roster spot.

Anything else is basically subjective to me and I don't care for subjectivity. Objectively, he isn't a good play driver relative to what his cap hit suggests. Pass from me.


See above. There are plenty of teams that have your point #2 as a non-issue, and #3 is also, for those teams, mostly a non-issue.
Jan. 19, 2018 at 11:23 a.m.
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LA doesn't need another bad contract for everyone to laugh about
Jan. 21, 2018 at 9:48 a.m.
#7
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Quoting: tadhockey
It is unbelievably ridiculous to me that a player like Paul Martin can pass through waivers cleanly in the modern NHL. Yes, I am perfectly aware that he has a $4.875mil contract, which doesn't expire until the end of next season. Yes, I fully understand that he is 36. And yes, I understand that he has been out with an injury all year, and that he was unable to make the Sharks' lineup after returning to it.

Those things all are entirely irrelevant.

Paul Martin's track record indicates he is a more than useful defenseman. In his age 33 thru 35 seasons, he put up solid possession numbers and 20+ points each season, despite getting limited power play time (at best, he was the #2 defenseman, behind Letang and Burns). He has played in extremely defensive roles (in his age 31, 32, and 34 seasons), while recently playing with Brent Burns in offensive roles (35 and 36). He has played for the United States national team. He has played in both the Western and Eastern conference. He's gotten Lady Byng votes for two of the past three seasons. And, if nothing else, he's been deep into the playoffs with the Sharks before in the 2016 playoffs.

This is not some bottom-pair bum who swaps between being the sixth defenseman and spending time in the AHL. This is not some constantly injured, mediocre forward who only chips in 20 points a year. This is a bona-fide middle-pairing defenseman, for what is admittedly mildly overpriced contract, that just passed through a system where every team could have had added him to their roster for the cost that it takes to have an intern send an email. Was he a fit on every team? No, certainly not. Some teams would certainly find no real way to fit him under the cap. Some teams simply have seven defenseman who they feel deserve to be in the NHL. But what about the teams that don't? Below is a subjective list of every team I see that could and should have reasonably fit him under the cap:

Arizona Coyotes
Buffalo Sabres
LA Kings
Montreal Canadiens
Colorado Avalanche

And these are just all the teams that could and should acquire him WITHOUT making any other salary moves than they already have.

I'm sick and tired of good players (read: Calvin Pickard, Cody Franson, etc) who continually get passed through waivers untouched for inexplicable reasons.

End rant.


A valid rant indeed!!
Jan. 21, 2018 at 5:46 p.m.
#8
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Certainly Martin isn't going to be a difference maker to a out of the playoffs team this season. So why does that group of team want him? The don't And at his 4.8m salary next year, they can find someone better.
And a contender team, might not think Martin can help them this year and in cap world don't want his salary next year.
Jan. 21, 2018 at 6:18 p.m.
#9
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Why pay him 4.8M when you can find someone of similiar quality for half the price? If he's not good enough anymore, he isn't and that's that.
Jan. 21, 2018 at 6:19 p.m.
#10
I'm a Skatman
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Quoting: tadhockey
That's exactly why I listed he's not for all teams. There are clearly places where his presence is not worth the risk. Boston, Philadelphia, Anaheim: all of these examples represent the poor locations for Martin at the moment.

However, in places like Arizona and Buffalo, where good defensemen are hard to come by, he fits in well. There's no question in my mind that claiming and attempting to play Paul Martin is more valuable than starting Kevin Connauton or Luke Schenn each night for the Coyotes. Colorado and Montreal both have some acknowledged holes on their back end, and adding Martin, if nothing else but as a potential third-pairing star, is a worthwhile, if risky, bet. LA has even said they aren't comfortable with the defense past their third defender. Martin can potentially be that fourth defender.

I will agree that is a somewhat risky bet, but the fact that he has played three games to me this year, when we have 200+ of evidence from the previous three to say that he is a mid-tier defenseman. Give me the 200+ rather than the three.



See above. There are plenty of teams that have your point #2 as a non-issue, and #3 is also, for those teams, mostly a non-issue.


sorry, you are missing the point by a land mile.

First, Paul Martin. he's owed ~6M in real dollars - why would a team like Arizona, why would ANY team spend these 6 million "just because"? he isn't a substantial upgrade. you have no prospects of making the playoffs, this acquisiotion doesn't help you organization in any way. and why give a roster spot to a declining, expensive veteran when you could give it to one of your own, younger players who have a future with the team? even IF he's an upgrade over one of their players - how many points does this acquision get you? 2? 4? nothing to write home about, not worth expending your ressources. not to mention every new acquision requires additional wor, gettign them used to the organization etc.you have only so many roster spots, you have only so many contract spots. Arizona is at 49 contracts, they'll want the flexibility around the deadline. you usually have a plan how much ice time you want your players to play, both at the NHL and AHL level. this is especially true for goalies.
Feb. 3, 2018 at 10:23 p.m.
#11
HawksFan28
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No one was going to take Paul Martin for all the reasons already pointed out.

If a team wanted Martin salary would have to go the other way, hence a trade would make more sense. Also, remember teams only have a 50 contract limit so that plays a role too.
 
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