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aadoyle

Hakuna Matata
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Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 7:43 p.m.
Thread: Leafs 2024 2025 Offseason Discussion Part 1: Kill or Be Killed
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Trickster</b></div><div>I was listening to TSN 1050 Overdrive on my drive home today.

The conversation being had was about NHL player salaries.
Specifically why Marner makes 10.9 million VS Marchessault making 5 million, Verhaeghe making 4.1 million, and Konecny making 5.5 million.

Are these guys legitimate morons?
That's their cap hit and not the money they are taking home.

Why is the conversation always about cap hit and not about the money the players are taking home?
It reality Marner is taking home about the same amount of money as these guys after taxes.
Take home money is driving cap hit, not the other way around.


On another note Jeff O'Neil is ****ing idiot and should not be on radio OR TV to talk about hockey.</div></div>

There's a bunch of things but Dubas also is a part to blame due to losing out on the other 2 negotiations and Farris being Marner's agent and throwing Marner's rep down the drain

After Rantanen signed his deal Marner should have went you know what 9.5m x 6 years and nobody would have batted an eye at him but nope he wanted almost JT money

But yea its kind of silly
Forum: Armchair-GMTue. at 7:39 p.m.
Thread: Yet Another Leafs ACGM With a Marner Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MitchJr</b></div><div>Agree to disagree 🤷🏻; absolutely no desire to bring anyone that will play on bottom pair or in bottom 6. That’s literally Fabbro and Sissons - we have better (&amp; cheaper) in house options</div></div>

No we dont really have better options

In these playoffs TOR lacked a 3rd line. At times Holmberg got overwhelmed and while that line had chances it was not effective.

Sissons had 40 points this year including 15 goals as NSH 3c. Pretty good considering his role.


TOR does not need top 6 players in a Marner deal if they are targeting elsewhere as even if hes gone top 6 =

Robertson-Matthews-Domi
Knies-JT-Willy

And for those who go Robertson yes kids earned the spot and will probs get 20-25 goals now that Keefe's out of the way

Third line can then be McMann-Sissons-Jarnkrok or new guy thats not bad


Leafs Dcore if they brought Fabbro

Rielly-Fabbro
McCabe-Roy
Benoit-Liligren or someone else
Forum: Armchair-GMTue. at 7:33 p.m.
Thread: Yet Another Leafs ACGM With a Marner Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MitchJr</b></div><div>Zero interest in Fabri or Sissons; Leafs need two top 4 RHD and 2 top 6 forwards &amp; goalie. Could be Domi ($4M) + Bert ($5M), Roy ($6M) + Walker ($4.5M) + 1B goalie ($2.5M) = $22M. I absolutely don’t want any roster player back unless they are on elc or better than above players - we can fill our bottom 6 and bottom pair easily enough. No roster players back like Fabbro or Sissons, NTU</div></div>

Fabbri is a RD and has done well in the top pair with Josi before and is on a cheap cap hit

Sissons is a nice 3c and TOR needs to create a good third line next year


Saros makes a lot of sense for TOR rn. A 2.5m goalie wont cut it especially with Woll's injury history. A Stolarz, Brossoit, Talbot, etc is not gonna solve this issue

Bertuzzi is gone, Domi maybe stays. Roy at 6m is to risky especially on the term he's gonna get but Walker I could see

If TOR went out and traded Marner for Saros (with ext) + Fabbro and Sissons would be okay with that

As it fills in 3 holes with 1 trade
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 7:16 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Prospects, Draft Picks and More
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Rajvinder</b></div><div>I'm sorry I try not to post in a critical way but you are insulting someone with a crazy level or arrogance when you are so wrong it's not even funny.

Roy gets the majority of D zone starts for LA. He is on PK1, he is out in the last minute.

<strong>Doughty is not a defensive D</strong>. It's the equivalent of playing Morgan Rielly in the last minute when up by 1 goal. It's not a winning strategy.

Having worked for Rob, I would be shocked if he went into the season with Doughty, Spence, Clarke. If they did that I wouldn't be surprised if they were nowhere near playoff contention, it would be a disaster.

Which of the three they move I'm not sure. It's definetly not Doughty. Spence likely fetches a 2nd or 3rd in a Durzi type trade and can be replaced by DeMelo/Desharnais/Tanev or any other DFD. That is likely the plan.

But to say Clarke is untouchable is absurd. Pretty much every insider reported at the deadline that he was on the table. LA fans don't want him to move cause he has Erik Karlsson type potential but as the other poster said, those fans don't understand the current window has 1-3 years.

There isn't a window in 5 years from now. Dubois killed that. If they still had Byfield/Dubois(as a 1C)/Fiala/Spence/Clarke/Andersson after Doughty/Kopitar left then he would be untouchable.

Now they have nobody to play down the middle and no goalie. It's too many holes to consider that a window. Kings will either retool (highly unlikely) or go all in next year.

The Fiala for Saros/Marner for Clarke suggestions isn't far off from what LA management is actually thinking. Ulmark is their goalie target but I can see them trading a winger for Ulmark then trading Clarke for Marner. That would make them an instant top contender next season.</div></div>

<img class="for_img" src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIo1HtCXQAAV5LQ?format=jpg&amp;name=4096x4096" alt="GIo1HtCXQAAV5LQ?format=jpg&amp;name=4096x4096">

Yea this aint looking good for your statment.

Doughty’s 5v5 expected goal share would be the highest of his career at 57.64%, according to Evolving Hockey. He leads the Kings blueliners in 5v5 relative expected goal share (on-ice xGF% – off-ice xGF%) and on-ice Corsi at 57.59% during 5v5 play, according to MoneyPuck.com.

As for Goalie go trade for Markstrom that aint hard was it

And man you say you worked for an NHL FO, claimed to be talking with NHL executives left and right but Kings fans and others fans have questioned it numerous times on your ACGM's which is making me very doubtful anything said is legit past and present. As why would a person who claims to be a "Former NHL Executive" be on CF of all places and make questionable posts and not good trades of all things using unprofessional arguments and speech to justify things. Should have the knowledge to know thats not correct in the hockey or real world. Like Domi + Brodie + Robertson for K'Miller come on you should know better thats never gonna happen if yah actually worked in the gig. Thats what people who have no idea what trade values are do or trolls just wanting attention/to mess around

Or could just be Howard Berger's CF account lul
Forum: Armchair-GMTue. at 7:12 p.m.
Thread: Yet Another Leafs ACGM With a Marner Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MitchJr</b></div><div>Disagree. I’d rather have picks &amp; prospects (or young players on elc’s with high ceiling); then use the cap space to upgrade D &amp; scoring depth.
For example, what player off Nashville roster would we want, that they would part with? Maybe Saros, that’s it.
Marner is a pending UFA on a big ticket, and looking to extend on a bigger ticket (probably); just don’t think we’ll get high level young roster players back.</div></div>

Were in win now mode not wait and see mode

Look at the Tkachuck trade or the Eichel trade. Thats what to look at in a Marner deal

TOR has enough good players on cheap deals in their lineup for next year

McMann, Knies, Holmberg, Robertson, etc

As for who else would come back in the deal besides Saros....Fabbro, Sissons, etc.
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 6:29 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Prospects, Draft Picks and More
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>Again I don't think it's that simple. They have Doughty at $11M for 3 season. They are likely giving Spence a new deal this summer.

It's the equivalent (not in term of quality but player type) to use playing Rielly, Sandin, Dermott as your LD. Anyone who has watched a single hockey game knows that team isn't winning anything. No matter how good those three guys are at their role.

I'd also point out that Villardi was seen as untouchable by Kings fans last summer and got moved. Kings fans think their window is with Byfield/Clarke, Management thinks its with Kopitar/Doughty. Honestly i think their Management it right. In 3 seasons you likely lose both, Danault is in his mid 30s and unless they move Dubois or Byfield back to C they will have no centers and likely a bottom 5 forward core and goalie tandem.

If they can turn Fiala + Clarke into Marner + Saros I think they'd be crazy not to do it.

Again they could move Doughty or Spence or run a D core that will crumble (like this year) but if you ask most hockey analysts moving Clarke makes the most sense, they get a 100point forward (they didn't have a single PPG player last year and there were 33 last season not including guys with under 60 games played).

I also generally think this attitude that LA won't move him so we shouldn't try is BS. If we are going to be moving off of guys like Marner, Tavares (more points than any UFA center) then we shouldn't just be doing it for random returns we should do it for specific players we are targeting. I'd easily do Marner + Tavares for Clarke and LA can pay Chicago or Anaheim a 2nd after July 1st to retain 50% on each (like 800k in real money). That's deal that makes LA infinitely better (especially if Marner comes extended) they can move Fiala for Saros, cap works and they have a serious cup contender.</div></div>

Its very simple Clarke plays the second pair next season and when Doughty slows down they lower him down and Clarke takes more responsibility lul. No need to bring Roy back to a big contract when you got the replacement right there

Andersson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Clarke
Englund-Spence

And sure Kings traded Vilardi but look where that got them. They now stuck with a worse deal and a potential anchor you think they want that again hell nah.

In the end Clarke fits the current plans for the kings, Marner does not

The fans of their team told yah that and now we have
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 5:43 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Prospects, Draft Picks and More
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>My #1 target this summer would be<strong> Brandt Clarke. </strong>

From LA's perspective, they have problems in net and upfront that are much more pressing than adding to their D core. They also have Doughty and Spence who are similar offensive minded RHD. I just don't see them doing well if they go into next season with Doughty, Spence, Clarke as their RHD. They wouldn't be able to maximize the value of any of them given there is limited PP time to share and they wouldn't have a single D pairing with two guys who can play real solid in the defensive zone.

So as much as LA fans will say he is untouchable, I think if you really look at their lineup, it doesn't make sense. Maybe they do what they did last offseason and trade the proven commodity in Spence to make space for Clarke (the same way they traded Durzi to make space for Spence) but that didn't go well last time.

From Toronto's perspective, Clarke is unproven and would likely cost a significant asset (Marner) but he profiles exactly like Bouchard when looking at his style and point production at the junior/AHL levels while being better than Bouchard in his own zone (low bar but he clears it). Toronto could afford to pair him with a solid DFD to support him at 5v5 then let him lose on the PP. He'd finally give the Leafs a legit PP QB with a wicked shot, great vision and solid passing. I think having his shot on the PP will massively improve the PP cause right now forwards really cheat on Matthews because Marner and Rielly don't have great shots. If the guy at the top can wire it and you have Bertuzzi or another big body in front of the next then they need to cover that lane which should leave Matthews and Nylander open on the halfwalls to take shots.

I personally think this is the biggest need for the team immediately. Obviously if you could rebuild the team from scratch there is lots about the identity that we'd all want to change but if you are asking me the easiest way to get this team out of the first round, then IMO its getting a PP QB like Clarke to ensure we score 4/5 PP goals per series, that alone should be enough to overcome the 1/2 goals we always seem to lose by.

Second priority would be getting support for Woll, again if we have him at his best and we save 2-3 more goals per series suddenly these two changes are increasing out goal differential in a 7 game series by 6/7 goals.</div></div>

LA aint giving him up so put that to rest

The teams fans already told yah in the ACGM's 0 interest in Marner and we have said 0 interest in PLD

And I doubt LA has actual interest in trading for and extending Marner to 11.5-12.5m. Look how the last big trade went for them lul

LA's gonna move on from Roy giving Clarke a spot and thats his chance and considering Doughty is gonna be done soon Clarke makes all the sense in the world for them to keep lul
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 5:40 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Prospects, Draft Picks and More
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsForLife</b></div><div>I’d agree with your point, <strong>but unless you feel you have a legitimate shot to win the Cup, trade your pending UFAs</strong>. However, I find it funny that while 0/4 guys you mentioned were traded, 3/4 left and signed massive deals elsewhere.</div></div>

Thats how almost every team entering the playoffs feels

Nobody is going in and feeling oh were ****ed

Playoffs are never set in stone as to how they will go

We have seen record breakers fall quick and Cinderella runs

No competitive team is gonna trade their pending UFA's unless they are going for someone better who heck may also be a pending UFA lul

If JT never happened where would Bozak and JVR have extended in TOR, probs yes. TOR would have had no choice in the matter
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 3:39 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Prospects, Draft Picks and More
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>Tampa is a great example.

They traded St. Louis, Boyle, Bishop and more during their window with an eye to the future. All of this allowed them to grow from the team that came close in 2015 to the one that won in 2022.

I get that some moves like Kadri and Marleau are fine in the vacuum of that offseason but my point is Shanahan was there from the time Kadri signed his deal to when he was traded. It was a good return given that Kadri needed to be traded that offseason. Shanny was there when we signed Marleau, the need to trade a 1st to dump him is on him. Even if that trade in a vacuum needed to be done to keep Marner.</div></div>

TBL also risked letting Stamkos walk for nothing back in 2018 and it could happen again in 2024

TBL has also let guys like Killorn and Palat walk for nothing

Its all just conjecture. Dont matter if Shanny is there or not lul

Same thing happened with CHI and many other competitive teams, its the nature of the business and competitive teams. TBL knew one year they werent gonna make the playoffs and so traded some guys away when they could but other times it was sorry cant afford yah see yah
Forum: Toronto Maple LeafsTue. at 3:28 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Prospects, Draft Picks and More
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>One thing that really gets overlooked when judging the organization/Shanahan is how poorly they handled the years after drafting Matthews.

From 2017-2021 when Matthews was 19-23 the Leafs:
1. Let Kadri go for no substantial return (Could have got a 1st+)
2. Traded a 1st to dump Marleau
3. Traded a 2nd for 2 months of Plekanec
4. Traded a 2nd for 2 months of Boyle
5. Let Bozak walk (Could have got a 1st+)
6. Let JVR walk (Could have got a 1st+)
7. Let Gardiner walk (Could have got a 2nd)
8. Signed Zaitsev to a deal that cost use Brown

If the team had continued to remain commited to the rebuild and longterm, even just through the end of the 2018 season (thats two years of Matthews career where they don't prioritize winning). Today we'd have 4 more 1st round picks, 3 more 2nd round picks. This is the depth/trade pieces/capital/etc. that we've been missing.

I really think Shanahan's failures go way beyond his commitment to the core 4. He drafted three studs in his first three years as President but I don't think any other decision he's made is beyond criticism and with hindsight they are pretty much all wrong. From hiring Babcock to firing Lou, hiring Dubas, hiring Keefe, going for it in Matthews first few seasons, Kadri trade, Contract negotiations, team building strategy, all failures.</div></div>

See this is where Bias and not looking at the bigger picture comes in

At the time Kadri was traded people all over the NHL praised the return

Barrie was a offensive weapon with the Avs giving them around 50 points and 10 goals a season and Kerfoot was a 40+ point young C for them. And considering how much Kerfoot influenced this teams bottom 6 and PK and when he left the numbers dropped pretty evident. For Barrie Babcock pretty much almost ruined the guy. Could we have gotten better sure but Kadri had hurt his rep with suspensions and his trade protection didnt help. Sounds like someone else we know minus the suspensions

For Marleau had to move him as Marner was due for a new deal. Maybe could have done it for 2 2nds or 2nd + 3rd but would still have not been cheap

Why would we have traded JVR and Bozak when in 2017-2018 Leafs were having their best season at the time (105 points) and can apply the same to Gardiner to

Like I get it but competing teams dont trade their pending UFA's. Did TBL trade Stamkos?, did NYI trade JT?, did CBJ trade Panarin or CGY Gaudreau?

These are the risks competing teams go through year in and out

The only guys I will agree were Boyle and Plekenic thats it