Kleven brings what the Sens don’t have, toughness and size on D. We can’t afford to trade him.

OTT rejects the Jarry trade. Vegas also rejects.

none of the 3 listed above are small. Chabot and Sanderson are both large, and Sanderson definitely brings "toughness"

almost sounding like a TOR fan, where an obsession of "toughness" leads to disaster.

Fact is, he's not the 3 best LD in OTT. It would be a HUGE mistake for OTT to instead send PIT Hamara, who looks really damn good and is clearly a greater pedigree of player.
Just like it would for OTT to sit him for Kleven. Hamara is very solid defensively and has really good puck moving skills to get it out of his own zone. You don't sit that.

You play your 3 best. Like every other team should. That's how you win games. Not by worrying about "toughness."

no VGK does not.
Whitecloud is their 3RD going forward. They made that bet on the contract they signed. They are stacked on the RD side. so there is no room there.
Korczak is no better than a 3RD.

On the LD side, Martinez is out the door. McNabb is 34 and one step out the door. Hutton is a 7th guy. Which means they will need a 3LD.
So the trade works for them. Swap one cheap 3rd pairing defenseman for another to more fit your depth needs.

Am I the only pens fan that thinks Blomqvist should stay in the AHL? Goalies notoriously take longer to make the jump to the NHL, and many teams have star goalie prospects still not consistently playing even back up roles, Levi, Wolf, and Wallstadt. I’m not saying he can’t make the jump, but the others haven’t and Ned while being pretty good for most of the season (same with jarry) didn’t end the greatest.

We don't want Jarry, and especially not for Kleven brother.

Vegas will reject because they can get a better offer than POJ.

Yes they do lol. Korczak is the only RD depth and they have Cormier while Theodore is a natural lefty. Also POJ is arb eligible while KK is not

D core definitely looks better for sure - and I agree the defensive play was more of an issue Jarry himself. Personally I think I'd just keep Jarry though, and look to sign a 2LD, or 3LD if you think Graves can bounce back. I do think Blom is ready to be called up - but not sure I'd throw him right into being a starter.

Forward group looks decent, I just think I'd spend that money on another forward as I think Koivunen will need a year in the AHL.

I have to disagree though - there absolutely is a rush to fix this team due to the age of its top players.

I think the issue is what do they do with all the goalie prospects then. They don't want to trade them to keep Jarry. But they have 3 now that are really good. Usually they don't keep them all. They sort out the best and ship the rest off. Many of which are currently starters or backups in the NHL. He's not very young he's 22. You look at the rest of that draft and there is nothing they got out of it. So if they are looking to make a move in net, he's probably the best option compared to free agency.



you need a goalie, and the market isn't deep. Unless you'd like to continue down your current path? Because I don't see a whole lot of teams offering up goalies.



Maybe, but he hasn't done anything to really show that. He's walled off from getting playing time in VGK. Their need is more pressing at LD in the near future.



They play Theodore on the R, and Cormier is a -30 defenseman in the AHL. That's not depth. They will be looking for a LD soon. As their left side in general is getting old. They get a younger one on the cheap.



If this team throws money at forwards they aren't going to get a great return. There just isn't much to choose from. I don't see that ending well. Maybe keep Smith and put him on the 3RW? I don't know what to tell you, other than the other options aren't very good or at least not any better and not worth long term deals. There are only like 1-2 good forwards in both the RW and LW. You take out Jake who they didn't resign, you take out Reinhart who isn't going to come to a soon to be rebuilding PIT and what do you have? DeBrusk, they have that in Smith. Dakota, guys 27 had 1 year and people want to throw money at him, no thanks. The options aren't great. It's mostly older players for a team that doesn't need to get older.

22 is 100% young for a goalie, the goalie prospects i named are all considered to be of the best in the prospect pools, and all are right around the same age as Blomqvist. I dont think we will see him next year.

I don't think they will use him as a starter at least not at first but you will see him.
They won't put 3 prospects in wbs. They already signed Larsson so he'll be over, and Murashov is reportedly ready to come over.
You can't have all 3 in wbs. You can't even have 2 when Blom is getting 50 some starts there in a 72 game season.

If he is the back up next year they 100% keep jarry, I liked Ned but he’s still not a proven starter. No way they run with a young inexperienced guy and another who never proved to be a good starter.

This was my original thought too.
But I also don't think they want the trouble of having to move him next year because they don't know what the market will be. If they can move him now, then they will.
It's also why they are so stacked on goalie prospects. Ok, lets say Blom isn't ready yet. You got 2 really good goalie prospects behind him in WBS now on top of Ned.
They probably figure by the 3 of them, one of them will be good enough to pull down enough games to take the pressure off Ned.
At the end of the day this is a team that has to take some sort of risk, otherwise they will be right back where they are. But it has to be a calculated one.
If they can get something for Jarry this year, they do that. Because if he plays this way next year, they won't be able to move him out. Especially if the market on goalies is better than this year.
Right now the market is bare. You got Ullmark and then maybe Markstrom. But if they move Markstrom that creates another hole.
So I'd say this is the time to move him if that's the plan.

How so? That would solely fall on the contract given, no? I mean obviously Dubas could give out a bad contract, I'm not saying that isn't a possibility. But he can just as easily sign a fair one. Sure you could keep Smith, although if they're able to get a 3rd for him as you were here - I'd probably take that deal and sign someone else. He looked completely uninterested this past season. Well I would say there's some good options and are better than Koivunen. Idk why it has to be a long term deal? Idk man, I guess we'll just have to disagree there. I think there's some solid winger options that are better than a guy who should be spending a year or two in the AHL. He's promising, I just wouldn't say he's ready yet. Just taking a quick glance at the list and there's Stamkos, Mantha, Zucker, Bertuzzi, Tarasenko, Marchessault, Toffoli, Arvidsson, Debrusk, Duclair, Domi, Stephenson.

I think that last line really says it all.
Stamkos is 34 no thanks.
Senko is old and broken
Marchessault is 34
Toffoli gonna be 33
DeBrusk is basically Smith... 40 pt inconsistant player.
Duclair no thank you.
Domi probably stays in TOR, not a huge fan to be honest.
Arvidsson is 32 coming off injury
Stephenson is 31

This is what I mean when I say the list of FA isn't anything great.
Most of those guys aren't signing 1 or 2 year deals.
I think if this team is going to start building better it needs to stop panic mode and start thinking plan. It's been the string of 1 year fixes that has brought this team to where it is.
The cycle has to end at some point. Sure if you can get a guy on a 1 year deal ok maybe. But I realize that's not going to happen.
It's better to save cap so they can go after bigger fish. Like targeting a 2C.
Mediocre help isn't going to make this team a legit contender. I accept that fact. It's going to have to restructure and redefine it's "core."
You can't do that constantly living on the cap edge, because you kept trying to look for bottom of the barrel support blowing through the cap.
We have to accept that what we have isn't a playoff team to start. That one or two middle of the road pieces isn't going to make them a cup contender.

What does it say? To me it just says there's some good UFA wingers available. You can't just look at the age though, you need to look at the caliber of player. Those are all good players, and better players than Koivunen right now.

It is good though, I mentioned several good players in that list. We don't need them to sign 1 or 2 year deals. I mean, there is some panic mode though. They're at the end of their time. They're building teams for now. I agree - the cycle has to end at some point. The good news is we know exactly when that ends - when Crosby/Malkin/Letang and partly EK are done. They don't have the luxury of taking a gap year for the 0.00001% chance that they get Draisiatl next offseason though - or a multi year fix.

It's not mediocre though - those are all solid players that would be an upgrade at wing over Koivunen. Maybe we just need to clear things up so I have a better understanding and clarity of your side. Are you saying this era is over and they shouldn't try to win? Because if you are, then yes, I understand your take and not wanting to sign someone. But if you're still trying to compete - I don't see why would would be against signing a good player to help the team?

A. we don't know what we have in Koivunen yet.
B. the age matters, you can't just write it off. This team looked old and slow this year. Bringing in 34 year olds isn't going to change that. It's just pissing away money and opportunity.
One look at that list and you realize WHY those guys are on the market.

I think we have different ideas of what it means to actually compete. Just scrapping into the playoffs to be blown out like WSH and NYI isn't competing.
There has to be an actual realization of that.

You look at that team above. 2 spots in 3C and 3RW. I tried to fill with youth. maybe maybe not.
But I'm not ruling out other areas of filling those holes. I just don't think it can be done in FA at either a Price, contract term or player that this team needs to be involved with.

Come trade deadline there are always guys available. maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick brings in a more viable option. 1st are completely off the table.
We have to consider things past what FA brings in and not get roped in.
There aren't that many holes on a team. You fix 3 above, 1LW, both 3rd pairing.
Lets not expect to fix everything in 1 offseason. Be patient and see what happens. Look at FL. They grabbed Senko for a 4th and a 3rd.
This is how the penguins should be looking at this. Fill what makes sense.... worry about what is left later with small ball trades.
You give yourself both a chance to let the youth play and show what they got, and might find they actually fill the need.
If not, it's not like you are fixing the whole team at TDL.
It's only 1 or 2 roles.

A. I agree. That's basically my exact point
B. Nobody said age doesn't matter. Nowhere did i write it off. I said you can't just look at age. How they perform on the ice is what matters - and rhat obviously can be affected by their age. Correct - the Pens were not a fast team. That doesn't mean they can't sign any of the guys I listed. It's not pissing away money and opportunity though. Yeah they're on the market because their contracts are up.

Sure. Maybe we do. And that's fine. I think trying to put together the best possible roster and make the playoffs would basically be the definition of competing.

I'm fine with playing youth. I think it's good. Inject youth in the lineup for a spark and to save money. I'm just not for forcing youth into the lineup to the detriment of the team, especially when there's so much cap space left. I guess I just don't understand how 3RW can't be filled in FA when there's a long list of guys.

Correct you filled some holes like 1LW and 3RD - and like I said i like those moves. The only thing i pointed out was possibly signing an extra winger - i guess I just dont understand the hesitancy to sign a winger that would upgrade the team. Yeah but you need to be in a playoff position to be buyers at the deadline. I wouldn't expect a team to fix every hole in one offseason - it just seems kind of weird to me to not fix a hole when you have the money to do so. Right, but again, if it doesn't work - you aren't buying at the deadline

does anyone really thing 3RW is why this team didn't make the playoffs?
I mean they didn't make the playoffs because the 3rd pairing sucked and the power play blew chunks. Then entire bottom 6 did nothing and they were still only a few points out.
You only need to be close by TDL. But again. Just scraping in like WSH or NYI did isn't competing. If that's the best they can do, who cares anyway.

This is the point. If the defense and the top 6 and the goal can't look competitive in any substantial way, then you are right they won't make the playoffs and what difference does it all make anyway? Because 3RW isn't what is or isn't going to make you competitive.

It's a moot point at that point.

We can't say the team is not fast and then turn around and sign yet another old player. This idea that they are still somehow "good" just doesn't cut mustard. It's not that their contracts are "up." It's that teams don't want roped in on 34 year old players so why let the penguins play the fool. Bringing guys that age in only works when the rest of the roster is young. That isn't the penguins, you just end up with the oldest slowest roster in the league.
Building the best team doesn't mean spending money or having to do it right now.
This team is better off waiting to fill those roles. We've seen the options of FA... they aren't great. You can find at least not great at TDL at minimal cost with no issues going forward.
So why rush?
It's better to claim the pieces as they are available. Instead of rushing into a fix. Even if the window is closing if not already closed.
Because if you can't build an actual cup contender you are just spinning wheels anyway. None of what you listed on that list is going to make this team a cup contender.
The best is probably Stephenson, who will cost a lot, want long term, and isn't going to settle for a 3rd line role anyway. Odds that he agrees to come to PIT is probably small to begin with.
As I'm sure he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild in the middle of his contract.
I'm just a bit more realistic of where this team is. What it's options really are. I realize that it's not going to be fixed in 1 year. It's going to take at least 2.
We have to be prepared to accept that. If they did that to begin with they wouldn't be where they are now. But Hextal thought he had to win right now.... just like Dubas thought he had to win right now.
So we ended up with Smith who didn't mesh, EK who was a luxury item they really didn't need, and a team built with no real plan.

Cmon man - you know that's not an argument for not signing another winger or improving the team though. And if you did, the team would actually look a lot better and be a great overall team. I wouldn't say the 3rd pairing is a main reason for missing the playoffs - the PP absolutely was though. Yes, the bottom 6 didn't produce - so why not add someone there that can produce? I mean..... that is competing though. Certainly more than not trying to make the playoffs.

That's not a point for not signing another winger though. I just can't grasp why you're so against making the team better?

Yes we can - because fast and old aren't opposites. The opposite of old is young. It does though - because they are good. Simply saying someone isn't good because they're old, now that doesn't cut the mustard. No, it's that their contracts are up and the teams don't know if they can afford to re-sign them. Yeah and forcing young guys in the roster only works if they're amazing and the rest of team is great. That's not the Pens.

I mean - spending money on better players does mean building the best team. Everything with the Pens has to be done right now though. That's the stage they're at. They don't have time to wait.

Yes, weve seen the options. And they're pretty good. So you'd rather give up draft capital than sign someone for free? And again, you have to be in playoff contention to be a buyer. Why rush? Cmon man haha. You know exactly why. Look at the age of the core - their best players.

You don't get more available then a UFA my friend. Signing a UFA isn't "rushing". Plus yes - the Pens do in fact have to rush if youre actually thinking of competing again in this era. But it makes the team better dude. I don't understand this argument of "don't make the team better because it won't make them a top 5 team in the league"?

You have the space for Stephenson though. Okay, then throw him at 2C, move Malkin to wing and drop Bunting or Rakell. It doesn't actually have to be a 3RW - the lines can be shuffled.

I don't think you're being any more realistic of where this team is than I am haha. If anyhting I'd say you're less - since you keep saying we have time. Which we don't. And I gave several good options. Okay but then i need to ask - how are you going to fix it in 2 years when your players are even more ancient?

Hextall just sucked. Had nothing to do with him trying to win now. Dubas does have to win right now though. The Smith trade just sucked - had nothing to do with Dubas rushing. The EK trade was good

I know we aren't going to agree though so don't feel like you have to respond haha. Like I said I like your moves and the team overall - just think it needs one more bit with that cap space.

I'm getting the impression you kinda think the Crosby era is over so just want to coast into the sunset. And thats fine. I just dont see how theyre too old now but the team can be built in the 2 following years when theyre even older. Time isn't a luxury I think they possess right now. I personally would like to see them ice the best team possible and try to compete now - because I think they still can. That's where we differ - and that's okay.

Always appreciate the chat. Have a good one man!