I don't think this would be a downgrade tho...

Barzal would be a 35 goal scorer, 100 point player with Matthews... Marner would become a 80-85 point player in NYI...

You're right, this would be Treliving redeeming himself for the Tkachuk trade...

And need I mention that Barzal's signed until he's 33-34 years old? Whereas Marner, if he were to sign an 8 year deal, would be 36-37 by the end of his deal... For 3-6 mill more

Its a downgrade, its basically Brad almost repeating history with Tkachuck again

How do we know Barzal will score 30 goals or put up 100 points here. Look at Huberdeau in CGY everyone thought another 100 point season with Lindholm or Kadri nope guy struggled bad and even now hes not anything close to that guy in FLA. Barzal could potentially get worse or stay the same with all the pressure here

We cant assume anything with adding an unknown with Barzal besides he will save us 2-3m thats really it. Just because Matthews is good does not mean all players will work with him. Ask Ritchie, Bertuzzi, Domi, etc. Not everyone works or has worked with him. Knies has looked good but even he has not fully benefited. Marner would on the other hand based on evidence with 2 elite centers and Bozak at the time most likely increase NYI production especially with less pressure. JT's best season in TOR came with Marner on his wing. Wouldnt surprise if Horvat had his best season with Marner feeding him pucks as thats what usually happens.

Again a big flashy toy we dont need and is to much of a gamble. Stick to the guy we know plays well with AM and who plays the PK well to. Only move on from Marner if an upgrade like McDavid is available that offseason

I said a few pages back that this roster is flawed and part of the flaw is the amount of $$$ allocated to forwards. A potential Barzal deal would not fix that even if he's 3 million cheaper because it's really not addressing the D at all with such a trade.

Ideally, trading Marner allows for acquiring/signing a top notch RD because that is a position that has been a sore point for this roster in this core's history.

I don't mind the money allocation. Forwards have been pretty well proven as being more valuable to a team, and so dumping the majority of your cap into them is efficient

I'm getting the vibe you don't understand the reason the Tkachuk trade was so bad... Huberdeau went from the number 2 guy to the guy... Whereas Tkachuk went from number 2 guy to number 2 guy

In this trade, Barzal would go form the number 1 guy to the number 2 guy whereas Marner would go from the number 2 guy to the number 1 guy

As for your last comment, Bert worked with Matthews (Matty had 2 hat tricks with Bert), Keefe just liked jumbling the lines... Domi and Ritchie either never played with Matthews or played very little with him

JT had his best season with the Islanders where he was 2nd in the Art Ross trophy... Not with Marner



It would fix that as it gives more potential $$$ to give to UFA defensemen

This idea is the Yzerman strategy of always trading up... This, especially if you can get more than Barzal, would accomplish that...

The long and the short of it is that the Leafs are...
In win-now mode; A better team with Marner than without him; In need of of a top pair RD; Lacking in draft capital
Therefore, the Leafs should not...
Trade for Barzal; Trade away Marner; Focus on trading for a forward
Most roster changes can wait until the offseason and FA when these changes don't cost picks and prospects

In general I would rather within reason allocate money to what we know works to a degree then what does not

Sure adding someone like Barzel saves 3m but hes worse than Marner. Marner makes the centers hes around better and is better defensively. Give him his 12.25m let JT walk then go fill things more out from there.

Cause basically doing a Tkachuck trade rn could be disastrous even if it saves u 3m

Issue is there arent many Dman rn on Marners caliber that would be offered in a trade if at all. We already saw that with Willy

Nobody was gonna give Leafs what they wanted for him so Marner's probs gonna be the same

Its basically a penny to the dollar trade.

Like Dman off Marner's caliber are what teams lock up then never field trade offers for unless they ask out

Barzal checks too many question marks to at least ponder about the potential of him coming in a trade (especially if you were to gain draft capital and go get Chychrun)

You could then run:
Knies-Matthews-Bert
JT-Barzal-Nylander
Robo-Domi-Jarnkrok
Gregor-Kampf-McMann
Reaves

OR

Knies-Matthews-Bert
Robo-Barzal-Nylander
Domi-JT-Jarnkrok
Gregor-Kampf-McMann


OR

Knies-Matthews-Barzal
Bert-JT-Nylander
Robo-Domi-Jarnkrok
Gregor-Kampf-McMann

Rielly-Lilly
McCabe-Chychrun
Benoit-Brodie
Gio

Woll
Sammy

700K in cap space

Barzal doesnt check off any ? he just makes another one or a worse one. If hes not trusted to play C with NYI when nobody there is over the top talent rn why should we trust him here to be our 2c lul. . In general as mentioned to yah over and over moving Marner for him be a downgrade. Its basically like trading in your Corvette to go get a Camaro. Not worth and Brad especially dont want another Tkachuck like disaster

Keep the better player and build around them. As while 3m in cap space would be fine Leafs have enough come that year to do enough dmg to where they dont need anymore as JT and his 11m is off the books to they can go build a nice Dcore, sign a cheap temporary 2c till 2027 and go from there.

Yep thats why I say at the TDL go get that Dman with term to fill the bigger hole

As the other holes to me can be filled themselves as the bottom 6 can get hot at any moment. We saw it happen here and there. Domi and Bertuzzi in the playoffs especially could get dangerous like we saw last season

And last statement perfect. Should not be trading for another shiny toy thats worse than the current shiny collectables we got lul.

You are not alone, I despise how this team is constructed but until Shanny is out of here, don’t see it ever changing.

No dog in the fight over a Marner - Barzal trade but IF they just let Marner walk and redistribute his cap space, I will definitely be ok with that.

U got it reversed. In FLA Tkachuck became the guy. He was the reason next to Bob they went to the SCF. Then he got hurt, Bob came down to earth rest is history, Wasnt Barkov nope was chucky.


Bertuzzi also didnt work with Matthews, if he did why did Keefe split them up?. Why is Bertuzzi not reaping the rewards like Hyman and Bunting did?. Bertuzzi has shown his best hockey with JT so far and even that has not been great for the price tag. Matthews scored two hatty with Bertuzzi on his line yes but at the same time hes also scored Hatty's without him. Its all just conjecture. Keefe doesnt make line changes unless he aint happy with how things are going. If he had liked Bertuzzi with Matthews and Marner they would still be together but so far its been Knies getting it and for good reason.

And Ritchie/Domi did play with Matthews enough to know it didnt work. Ritchie 2021-2022 season 3rd most played with line = Matthews and Marner in that span 0 goals together and a -3. Bertuzzi was with Matthews and Marner for over 100mins and they are dead even with 4 goals for and against. In comparison Jarnkrok and Holmberg with those two in less time had similar goals for and less against. And Domi on the wing looked awful.


Going back to CGY reason Tkachuck trade was bad. Tkachcuk took his game to another level basically becoming a star there and he was not even playing with Barkov on the top line most of the time more so Bennett and Cousins. Huberdeau meanwhile tanked and we thought it was the coach or the system nope its him. Guys just not good. He had 115 points got his money then dipped. Only thing somewhat saving it from being an utter disaster was Weegar

We all know if they let Marner walk it would be to go get Draisaitl for who gonna cost the same if not more than AM due to FA tax.

But with Brad seeing what happened with Gaudreau/Tkachuck got a feeling Marners in for a 12.5m payday as letting him walk for nothing would be dumb move of the century. Even with all that cap space whats the guarantee they improve/get all what they need. As Leafs did enough of that in the past Hyman being the best example with Bunting a close second.

Hyman just be making not giving him his 5m the worst move of the Dubas era even if final 3 years = Anchor


To avoid another repeat they gave Willy 1m more than they should and next offseason Marner gonna get 12-12.5m as if the leafs wanted to start change Willy's gone first per the pecking order. As in the end they want to build around their big 3 Matthews, Marner, and Willy. With most likely them moving on from JT signing a temporary substitute then make a very hard push for McDavid

CJ believes leafs are gonna move on from Robertson. To me if u do this if its a pkg for a nice bottom 6 forward and Dman im good.

If its straight up for a 3rd or 2nd to then flip for Tanev then no

Keefe gonna drive another good bottom 6 guy out isnt he and then that player gonna thrive elsewhere.

Just as Barabanov, Lafferty, Kubel, etc with soon Robertson joining the list

The only reason why Barzal isn't a centre on NYI is bc they're trying to load up Horvat and Barzal together and Horvat's the better centre defensively... Otherwise, Barzal would be playing centre...

And I'd still argue that Barzal is better, you've completely ignored NYI's systems vs TOR's being a big reason why Marner has more points...

Lets be real if he was better at the position than any of those guys he would be playing C. They put him on wing cause they dont trust him at C. Could easily shift Pageau to wing to let Barzal be the 2c with Nelson as 3c. Isles want him on wing for a reason.

And hes not better. The excuse of systems for him is old as he had 85 points under that system in his rookie season then never looked the same since. Jfresh tweet sums it best for him. Marner makes centers hes with better. Its not a system its just his style. Look at him in London still top 5 in points per game in 2 separate seasons.

Will leave it with this as said 1000 times before In the end Barzal just a flashy toy this team has 0 need for as then we going for another bad chucky trade NTU. We dont need to downgrade to get capspace

If you're only looking playoffs, the Bob was THE guy... Tkachuk had 2 series where he scored 0 goals (TOR and VGK ones)... And Barkov is still taking L1 responsibilities, so you're wrong on that point

BC the rest of the team wasn't very good... Whereas with Hyman and Bunts, the Leafs had another 1-3 lines they could rely on... At the start of the year, it was Matthews' line and the PP getting all the scoring which can't happen

Domi never played with Matthews and Ritchie spent less time than Bert has... (77 minutes and 83 minutes respectively, Natural Stat Trick)

Yeah, bc Tkachuk was/is getting secondary coverage...

Tkachuk scored the game winner in 2 separate games in the CAR series and when he got hurt for the VGK series u could tell it was over. He and Bob broke the Canes

24 points in 20 playoff games including 11 goals was no accident

And even in the TOR series he went goalless who cares , he had 5 points in the series against us and his line bullied the crap out of em causing turnovers and problems.

Tkachuck was a big factor in FLA getting to the SCF and he would have probs won the Conn Smythe Trophy

He wouldn't though as NYI doesn't have enough weapons to go 3 centres and not have their line 1 suffer

Guess who he was playing with? JT and Anders Lee... Put Barzal with Matthews in TOR's system and he put up 95-110 points... And London isn't a good reason... Dude's supposed to be a good NHL player, no wonder he's lighting up the O, he should've been

Will leave it I'd rather upgrade and save cap than have a hometown kid

Again your missing the point this is not a guarantee. Not everyone plays well with Matthews. There is 0 guarantee Barzal comes here and puts up those totals

Lets say Leafs be dumb enough to trade for him and his totals dont change then what?

The system excuse goes out the window and Brad just did another Tkachuck.

Just cause you have an elite player does not mean everyone will work with em. We have seen it time and time again with various guys


Marner meanwhile dont rely on system or players. He just makes the centers hes around better. Matthews and JT can attest to that. In the end hes the better playmaking 2-way player would be dumb to trade him for someone worse to save a bit of cap thats all there is to it and for Brad best to avoid making another big trade mistake like he did chucky

And Nylander's already done that so I guess Nylander=Tkachuk

Bob was the real hero... He was the guy for Flo and it wasn't close...

Yes, everyone does... That's what you're missing, and Barzal fits the Leafs system like a glove...

you're trying to argue that Marner is equal to Tkachuk and Barzal is equal to Huberdeau when the reverse is a better fit...

And because Auston Matthews and prime John Tavares are made by Marner... Despite both having success with Nylander and ROR and a line of Jarnkrok+Bunting and Knies and Bert etc.

If your trying to compare Nylanders playoff to Tkachuck dont your just going no where with it. Tkachcuk was a big factor in FLA making it to the SCF. Nylander has had playoff moments but not like that

He does not fit the leafs system this is just a guessing game again

We thought the same with so many guys and in the end it amounted to nothing. Oh this guy would fit out system like a glove nope, how bout this guy nope, etc.

And your trying to make Barzal as if hes some big game changer when hes not. Since his rookie season hes been meh at best. Saving 3m should not mean downgrading from what we already have.

In general hes a big flashy toy this team has 0 need for end of story. As said before its basically the Leafs trading in a nice new Corvette to downgrade to a Camaro

NTU