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T0R

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Forum: Armchair-GMMay 16 at 12:51 p.m.
Thread: Marner
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>VGKNation702</b></div><div>Vegas isn’t adding Roy. He’s too valuable at his salary. The only way a Marner to Vegas trade happens is if it’s one for one with Theo with Marner retained. The undervaluing of him and over valuing of Marner on this site is hilarious.

Regular season points mean nothing to me. Marners numbers significantly dip in the playoffs. Him and Theodore basically have the same amount of goals and the same amount of games. Except one is a defensemen. They are the same age and both need a new contract, the differences point per game defenseman that can move the puck. Something leafs lack outside of Reilly.</div></div>


Yeah same amount of Goals, Points on the other hand it’s not close, Yeah Theodore has more he also has 57 more games than Mitch for only 11 more points?,The idea that Mitch is being overvalued is funny he still has 49 points in 57 games in the playoffs, Y’all genuinely act like he has 5 points in 100 games, he isn’t that bad in the playoffs &amp; he helps whatever team he goes to immensely, he just had a coach who played one of the most broken systems in the world &amp; a power-play coach who didn’t know his head from his butt, look at last year against Tampa, 14 points in 11 GP &amp; before that 8 in 7, he just had his 1st under ppg playoff in 2 years, Theodore this year had 0 points in the playoffs, last year 13 in 21 GP, that’s less than Mitch with 10 more games,yeah he’s a D-man with some super ugly defensive analytics lately so i think that severely diminishes that perceived higher value you think Theodore has over Marner, Theodore isn’t being undervalued, Mitch Marner especially with retention is being undervalued
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 16 at 12:39 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 13 at 1:25 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11 at 11:20 a.m.
Thread: Marner trades that make some sense
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CaseyFlyman</b></div><div>Haha I like how we're inching closer!

Elvis is kind of a prime buyout candidate, he's a decent 1B who has shown flashes, but he's been inconsistent. Honestly, he is the type of personality that would THRIVE in the Toronto spotlight. The only hangups on retaining are that a buyout is ~$1M cheaper per year (minus year 3 where it's ~$200K more expensive) and we'd be eating up a retention spot for 3 years. Merzlikins you could have for free, but with retention it's probably a mid-rounder in value coming back.

That said, the more I think about it, Liljegren is a good offset for Elvis. He's more valuable than a retained Elvis, but also redundant on a Columbus team that already has Jiricek, Severson, Gudbranson, and especially Boqvist on the right side. If he's in the deal because of salary and value, I think that's fine, but he doesn't add too much to Columbus in terms of need. Columbus almost certainly moves him or Boqvist (or both) for additional picks.

Overall, I think KJ + Laine + Provorov 50% + Elvis 50% for Marner + Lilly + a 4th would work, anything else would really be tinkering around the edges. Now we just have to submit it to the rest of the fanbases for approval. :)</div></div>

Then we’ll make a nice under the table deal to sign him after he gets bought out 🤣, think KJ + Laine + Provorov 50% + Elvis bought out &amp; signed by the Leafs for 1-2.5 mil most likely for Marner + Lilly + a 4th would work
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11 at 11:03 a.m.
Thread: Marner trades that make some sense
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CaseyFlyman</b></div><div>The biggest issue I'd have with that is that Provorov feels like the most-likely piece to be moved (i.e. "not a part of the long-term future"), where Mateychuk is penciled in as 2LD behind Werenski...forever. Would it make more sense to just send Provorov as part of that deal over Mateychuk? The Leafs would get a solid two-way 2LD that can play in all situations and stays healthy, who also fits the same age window/timeline of the core while Columbus keeps the younger guy who fits our timeline.

Columbus would retain half on Provorov, and I don't know that we even need retention on Marner if Laine is going the other way. I get the philosophy for 4OA, but 1) just because we have a stacked prospect pool isn't a reason to give away additional quality pieces, 2) you're already getting two pieces like that in Johnson and Laine in this deal (5OA and 2OA) and 3) I don't think this team is a Marner away from competing. There's so many pieces that still mature, we'd be looking at a 6ish year window starting in 2 years with both Marner and the 4OA selection.

Keeping Provorov and adding Marner would be win-now moves for a team that can't win now, given the age of half the roster. We still need maturation and growth to get there. I think if it got to KJ + Laine <em>and</em> Mateychuk/4OA, Columbus balks and just says send him elsewhere (which Toronto would very much have every right to do).

I could see KJ + Laine + Provorov (50% retained) for Marner + pick, probably anywhere from 2nd round to 4th round. Are we getting closer?</div></div>

You’re Definitely closer &amp; I understand your point so i’ll raise my own, what about Merzlinkins 50% retained?, I know he has what 2-3 more years, it would only be 2.7 in retention &amp; he has shown the ability to perform at the NHL level previously, it's just that was 2-3 years ago but I think it is fair to place that on the team around him more than just his abilities as a Tendy &amp; with Woll being a 50/50 &amp; no real upgrade available unless the Leafs get Saros from Nashville for Mitch (which negates this whole thing lol), I think Merzlinkins would be someone Brad would look to acquire in this deal as well so

KJ+Laine+ Provorov 50%+ Merzlinkins 50% for MM + Liljegren + a 4th
Forum: Armchair-GMMay 11 at 10:28 a.m.
Thread: Marner trades that make some sense
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CaseyFlyman</b></div><div>OP, you're one of the Leaf fans on here I've seen that engages in some thoughtful discourse, so I'm wondering what a Marner trade that makes sense for both Columbus and Toronto would look like.

Some of the caveats from Columbus' end:
1) 4OA wouldn't be available, but a top-10 protected 2025 1st absolutely would.
2) Johnson would make sense to go the other way.
3) Columbus has a similar player signed long-term already in Gaudreau, and another expensive winger in Laine, so Marner is already redundant...but, even though JG isn't going anywhere, Laine might.
4) Werenski, Jiricek, Jenner, and Fantilli are untouchable, so if Toronto views one of those pieces as being necessary in a return, I think discussions end there.
5) Marner has to come with an extension (assuming he even waives), which would likely be 8x$12M?

To avoid getting into a Toronto-like situation, I think Laine should be going the other way, but he's not the centerpiece of the deal. I'm thinking something like: Laine, Johnson, and Ceulemans for Marner and a pick?</div></div>

The thing is I can see Trelicing pushing heavily for Mateychuk especially since the Jackets left side is kinda full with Provorov &amp; Werenski or that 4th overall pick to get Sam Dickinson or one of the other incredible D prospects,

So I would say Final deal would be

Mitch Marner 25% &amp; a pick (you decide that) for Kent Johnson, Patrick Laine &amp; Mateychuk or Pick #4, I’ll explain my philosophy with giving up Pick number 4 basically you have a stacked prospect pool &amp; Mitch Marner is a Top 10 Winger in hockey at his best, which is the ceiling of almost anyone picked around that spot but another guy I can think of that also makes sense is Merzlinkins due to the Leafs goaltending situation