We have 2 already on the team.

Mikheyev, Semyonov

Does Engvall need to be replaced?

Absolutely not, is he frustrating as hell when he takes weak ass wrist shots from the just above the dots, hell yes. But he is very effective at using his speed, getting in on the forecheck, killing penalties, I am ok with him as a Leaf.

No. I see this ridiculous all the time. So many Leaf fans think their bottom enders aren't up to Matthews, Nylander, Reilly standards think these Leafs bottom enders can be replaced somehow by better bottom enders from other teams.

Once Mikheyev comes back he is either the extra or gone is my guess. I like him but sometimes he drives me crazy lul. If he only just developed a tad better he would be scary as man his speed and shot when he gets going is amazing especially on the PK. If he could work on consistency and his shot accuracy he would be a bonified bottom 6 player. Still he is a good extra

That's funny, half of leafs fans want him to shoot more and quit passing the other half want him to not shoot.

I think nobody recognizes his strengths. He lugs the puck from the defensive zone to the offensive zone time after time. Kase isn't putting any points up on that line either. Kampf is a nothing happens centre. Engvall has set him up for 3-4 sure goals. And nothing happens. But nothing happens in our end either. Small victories.

No doubt, Engvall is excellent at breaking out of the zone by using his speed. I feel like Kampf and Kase will be tied together even tho IMO Kampf is better suited for the 4th line. I would like to see Kase play with a more offensive C, I think Kase has more to give. I’d like to see Milheyev get look on that 3rd line once he is healthy. Or even a Mikheyev Semyonov Kase

You say this quite often and it doesn't make a lot of sense. No one is asking Engvall to be Matthews or Dermott to be Rielly. But if a move or two is coming its going to involve a depth player.

The team is literally constructed this way with the core 4 plus some high paid vet D being the constants, with the depth players being expendable/tweaked to find the right mix.

So someone suggesting an Engvall move or a Dermott move this season is wayyyyyyyy more realistic than suggesting Marner is getting dealt before the deadline, no matter how you feel about it.

9/10 Dubas doesn't bull****, so if he says he's committed to winning with this core (enough to bet his job on it) then you might as well believe him.

Also, this isn't really unique, the majority of teams trim around the edges of their roster after they find their core, that's why Subban for Weber or Hall for Larsson are such huge trades, because they pretty well never happen anymore (without Eichel like other circumstances).

The point he is making is that most on here seem to think any bottom 6 player from any other team is an automatic upgrade over any bottom 6 player in TO. Engvall isn't going to be a major offensive contributor, but he's been effective when he's played. Much like Kampf, not a lot happens when he's on the ice. That's not a bad thing. It's a pretty smart bet that the top 2 lines should come out on top vs the opposition most nights. And if your bottom 6 can stay even or at least on average come out on top then you can do pretty well as a team.

So trading Dermott for some other 6/7 defenceman or Engvall for Crouse every day. Leaf fans should focus on what's going good. They are piling up points despite really poor shooting percentages. That will swing the other way.

Part of the point he's making. Palhal has also literally said there was a case to be made for exposing Marner to Seattle to gain capspace. He seems to think there's not much point in making changes unless you start with the impact players.

And I'm fine with Engvall playing on a shutdown line, and not putting up much offence, but that puts a bit more pressure on the 4th line to actually chip in some offence. Which I'm not sure can happen to the extent the Leafs will need as long as both Ritchie and Simmonds (to Simmonds credit he looks better/quicker this year) are there.

So, with Kase showing some decent skill most nights, I'd prefer Mikheyev play on that checking line when he's healthy for a better chance to chip in the odd goal.

Then it's Engvall vs Ritchie for 4LW.

Also, the top 6 wins the majority of nights in the regular season, but playoffs are a different animal. I'd really hope by the time the playoffs roll around, that at least one of the bottom 6 lines can consistently contribute some offence.

And rather than rotating in randoms from other teams, maybe the Leafs should try mixing up the underperforming wingers on their own team to find better chemistry.

Easier said then done. Neither Ritchie or Simmonds can help on a shutdown line, so options are limited at the moment.

Every team that wins the cup, does so off the back of their star players. Point, Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Hedman etc. They won it for Tampa, not Yanni Gourde

True, Gourde's line gets way too much credit. On the flipside, the fact that 3rd line could go out there and play 15+ minutes (usually more than Cirelli line) and tilt the ice and chip in a bit offensively certainly played a role in both their wins.

Kampf & Kase could be 2/3rd of a poor man's version of that line, but an upgrade would be needed over Engvall to bump them up to a 15 min per night line.

I don't think Engvall hurts you either way. My guess is he'll slot down to the 4th line when Mikheyev is healthy.

Yes your stars need to be good, but take a look at the top teams and who’s won the cup recently and check the production of that third line. Scoring Depth is necessary to win in playoffs. Leafs third line won’t do that. Kampf and Engvall are 4th liners. Soup, Kase and need a upgrade third line C.

Absolutely, you need your stars and that third line gets a lot of praise but a 3rd line who's able to eat the type of minutes they did against some of the oppositions best players and still chip in enough offensively definitely doesn't hurt a teams chances. They take some of the load off the stars by giving them more favorable matchups and chipping in offensively takes some of the pressure of them. You look at the last 6 cup winners and a 3rd line who's able to chip-in one way or another definitely doesn't hurt your cup chances. Pit had the HBK line. Eller had 18 points playing mostly on the third line in Washington cup run with Bura and Conolly. Bozak's line for the blues had some big goals for the Blues and I believe Bozak had around 0.5 points per game and then the Gourde line the last couple years.

So while yes you stars need to be good for you to win, a good 3rd line definitely isn't inconsequential.

I absolutely believe the Leafs depth can chip in when necessary

They May. BUT career stats on all but KAse show they won’t.
Not bad players, and great defensively but that third line will need to pitch in offensively as well if you want a Cup contending team.

Of you can get a goal a game from your bottom 6 and your stars play like stars. You will win more than you lose.

Would t agree more. Let me know when that bottom
Six scores a goal a game lol

Unfortunately our bottom 6 is only scoring a goal every two games right now, 8 goals in 15 games, 2 of which came on the PP. Six even strength goals from the bottom in 15 games isn't going to cut it. Florida has 16 from their bottom 6, 13 at even strength. Carolina has 15, 13 at even strength. These teams are currently the class of the conference and obviously they aren't as top heavy but still we are mustering up barely half of the production they are from the bottom 6. That's the issue we face tough paying 4 forwards so much money, we only have just over 8 million dollars tied up in our bottom 6. Carolina has almost 12 million in their bottom 6 and Florida has roughly 17 mil granted Reinhart plays on their 3rd line and Hornqvist has a bad contract but still.

Let's say you play 25 games in the playoffs. If you can get 15-20 goals from you bottom 6/defence over that many games, is that something that really seems ridiculous? Spezza, Kase, Mikheyev, etc need to have between 2-5 goals in the entire playoffs. Is that really a stretch?

Most of that is just how the bounces are going. Their shooting percentage will rise back to the norm over a longer stretch.

I'd prefer him there instead of Ritchie, considering he boosts the overall speed on the 4th line. Although, with Ritchie's AAV and the fact that it doesn't seem like Ritchie is suited for the top 6, Engvall really has to prove he's clearly the better option.