I'm actually really okay with this trade but i think the retained salary needs to be like 200k-700k more just because of the cap situation. maybe edmonton adds a little bit higher pick to make that happen?

I do like that trade coming from an oilers fan. Let mcdavid, Nuge and draisaitl be on the same line lol

Gee, I think Risto and ROR are worth a lot more in trade than that. Maybe two trades to separate teams for cap purposes.

@Dylan1995 @BoltsPoint21 hold me back boys

Agreed...I think the Sabres are getting fleeced in this deal.

I'd rather have Risto over Klef. And given how valuable a centre is...never mind one that is lights out from the faceoff dot...I wouldn't be trading him at a discount which this deal appears to do.

If you want to move ROR's cap space out so that Eichel/Mittelstadt can play 1C/2C, you'll probably get better offers dealing him separately. I think you're better off keeping all 3 at C and sheltering Casey a bit, at least for next year.

Caps pass. They can get at least a 1st for Grubauer.

mmh klefbom is a much more complete defenseman than risto... puljujarvi for ROR wouldnt be that close, but given his upside and klef being a lot better than risto and on a better contract i think the deal is pretty fair

I don't know on what analysis you claim Klef being a lot better than Risto. It's fine if you prefer Klef. They're both good, young d-men. But all of Risto's metrics are better. They you have the ROR-Puljujaravi swap...plus you're adding a draft pick upgrade and justin Bailey into the deal just for fun. Doesn't make any sense to me.

He's finally seeing top 6 minutes baby !!! But nah I'd do klef a second an prospect for risto

show me the metrics. do it. show me. career corsi of 43.7 and a career fenwick of 43.9. idk if you understand advanced stats, but that is REALLY bad, like one of the worst defensive players in the NHL - klefbom has a career corsi of 50.7 and a fenwick of 51.4. hes also riding a 96.8 PDO which means hes been insanely unlucky this year. you can also take a peak at their hero charts and see who the better player is based on that as well! Risto is SHOCKING with shot suppression and isnt better than Klef in anything except for ice time - but again , please show me these "metrics"

Klefbom is exponentially better than risto

Its not the fake I think risto is better it's the fact it's hard to find a rhd puck moving d man which risto is hed provide better stats then klef

Caps say no reeeeeaaaaaaal quick. From Buffalo, the Caps are looking at the #32 pick plus prospects/other picks.

risto is one of the worst players in the NHL defensively, and his offense really doesnt make up for his lack of defense - hes 2011 Jack Johnson

For someone who takes the effort to know and pull the advanced metric stats, it’s disappointing how lazy of a conclusion you derive.

For starters, I am not suggesting Risto is the better defensive D-man.

Second. Law of large numbers. As more data is being collected it’s becomming apparent that Corsi/fenwick numbers are not an accurate as originally thought. They remain a useful team stat in predicting possession and therefore a team’s chances of winning given certain game situations, but they’re largely flawed. Especially when being applied to individual players.

To back up your claim that Klef is exponentially better based on Corsi is narrow sighted. Add a bit of logic instead of going all Billy Beane on the analysis.

Risto is the better offensive d-man
Klef is the better defensive d-man

Logic would lead one to assume that producing offence is a more desirable and difficult trait than preventing offence.

History will tell us that GM’s place a higher value on scoring vs defence.

IMO, regardless of stats, Risto has the higher trade value based on his production.

Now. A smart GM might look at each players traditional statistics as well as their advanced metrics and determine that there’s reason to believe that Klef has a chance to put up better numbers moving forward. He might have about a 60% chance of being right, too. He could then use this theory to trade the player with higher perceived value (Risto) for the player he thinks may be more valuable in the near future (Klef) +maybe another asset to bring the trade values on par.

Unfortunately that’s about the extent of it. Saying Klef is the exponentially better player based on your advanced metrics is wrong. The best you can claim is that advanced metrics suggest Klef might ultimately be better than Risto so I prefer to have him on my team at the lower cap hit

again, u keep giving me all this fluff without citing a stat to back anything up. points are not the only indicator of offense, as ive cited, klef has better shot generation - also, like i said about the PDO, klefbom has been ridiculously unlucky this year, suggesting hell be producing at a much higher rate in the future. on top of that, klefbom is better defensively than risto, and so much better that it erases the difference in offense and tips the scale much more in klefs favour

We’re going in circles. You clearly have a pre conceived notion that Klef is better and went and found metrics to support your answer as opposed to viewing the entire information available and using that to derive an unbiased opinion.

I have no attachment to either player. Objectively I look at Ristolainen’s actual point production, minutes played, shooting % (traditional stats) and they are superior to Kelfbom.

Traditionally +/- was used to help assess a player’s defensive stats but it was largely seen as a crap measurement which is where Corsi took over. It’s still a very imperfect measurement especially when applying it to individuals instead of teams.

Here’s an example from your own backyard: https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/why-its-problematic-to-use-on-ice-stats-to-rate-individual-nhl-players/amp

When you look at Corsi leaders, you tend to find players from the same team grouped together. Why is that?

By your reasoning. Matthew Tkachuk and Dougie Hamilton are the best players in the game today.

nah you're good

Ok so u didn't read my post... I pointed to Corsi, Fenwick, shot generation, shot suppression, PDO, and (up to this year) goals and primary assists/60 were all in Klefboms favour. No my logic is not that Dougie Hamilton and Matthew Tkachuk are the best players in the game I used a bunch of stats to support my point. Idk where to get these stats but I'm SURE that Klefbom has better controlled zone exists/60 and better allowed entires/60 as well. Also, anything written by David staples needs to be taken with a grain of salt