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fangm

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Forum: Armchair-GM15 hours ago
Thread: Big Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>OldNYIfan</b></div><div>Let's put aside the fact that the intentional mischaracterization of Kevin Fiala and Trevor Moore as "two middle 6 forwards (skilled but one dimensional)" is intellectually dishonest. You still seem incapable of grasping the reality proven by Toronto's last 6 years' experiment: a 100-point forward isn't as productive or beneficial as a 73-point forward plus a 57-point forward, and that's not the way to construct a winning roster, especially when the two top-6 forwards equal the cap hits of the 100-point forward and a minimum-level-contract player to fill the other roster slot.

No, Los Angeles isn't including Brandt Clarke in a Marner (or Nylander) trade despite your obsession (<strong>TWENTY-SIX</strong> out of your last 33 ACGMs have included such an effort!), Los Angeles isn't including Brandt Clarke in a Saros trade, Los Angeles isn't including Trevor Moore in a Marner or Saros trade, and Fiala's NMC precludes him from being included in a Marner or Saros trade (even if Nashville wants him back -- a point which you didn't seem to notice). If giving up so many current roster players for Marner and Saros is such a good idea, why don't you trade us Matthews and Nylander, too, for the rest of our good players so we can look exactly like the Toronto Maple Leafs of 2016 - 2024?</div></div>

See what you don't seem to get is that while having 4 100 points guys and no depth moving not be a winning strategy, having 20 2nd liners and no elite talent is also not a winning strategy.

LA has ZERO elite talent. Byfield will become that, Spence could become that but Fiala and Moore definetly are not that. Marner is.
Forum: Armchair-GM17 hours ago
Thread: Big Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Gronk9911</b></div><div>Nope, he won’t. Tell me, how is Berube going to somehow change the roster? Or do what the last 3 coaches couldn’t do?</div></div>

We are obviously speculating but from the outside looking in, under Keefe/Dubas the organization was built around the Core 4. They were given whatever they wanted and treated well, defended with the coach, GM, President in the media consistently.

Under Treliving/Berube, I'd expect them to be held accountable, from being called out for poor performances, benched, etc. There are loads of ways of doing it.

It's not impossible to do either. Under Lou all these players were kept inline. Whether it was Nylander's hair, Matthews facial hair, Marner's ELC deal (with zero bonuses), etc. The team had standards and held these players to them.
Forum: Armchair-GM17 hours ago
Thread: Big Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>OldNYIfan</b></div><div>Ah, yes, the unhealthy Brandt-Clarke-for-Mitch-Marner-or-I'll-die obsession. What is this, the tenth time you've proposed it?

Still not happening.

I'd be surprised if Nashville wanted Kevin Fiala back, but if they do, I can see him being the centerpiece of a Juuse Saros trade. He won't be accompanied by our leading goal scorer and local boy Trevor Moore, though.

Trading Mitch Marner only to sign Sam Reinhart short-term for $11.5 million. As Tallyrand said of the Bourbons, they have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.</div></div>

Reinhart and Marner are very different players. Marner is a perimeter playmaker, and Reinhart is a goalscorer who gets most of his chances right down the middle of the ice. Reinhart can also play a role on the PP (bumper) that the Leafs have desperately needed, Tavares is forced to fill the roll because nobody else can do it effectively, by getting Reinhart, Tavares can go back to the front of the net where he is much more effective.

The short-term deal for Reinhart mitigates the Leafs' risk; they aren't just rebuilding the core 4; Tavares is off the books next year, and Reinhart the year after. It's not locking into 8 more years of this like signing Mitch would be. And from Reinhart's perspective he's 28. No point signing a 7/8 year deal that takes him to 35/36. He's better off signing the 2 year deal then taking his 7/8year deal at 30 when the cap is higher and he's still young enough for a competing team to give him money + term (similar to what Matthews is doing with his 4 year deal taking him to 30).

Honestly if LA could turn:
Clarke, Turcotte, Fiala, Moore into Marner (50% off and extended), Saros (extended), Molendyk and they didn't do it then it would seriously call into question the front office's competency.

That a 100 point winger, top 10 goalie and top 10 LHD prospect that you are turning away for two middle 6 forwards (skilled but one dimensional), a one way high end RHD prospect (when you already have two solidified top 4 RHD including a 23 year old with the exact same skillset as Clarke) and a borderline waiver player (Turcotte can't clear waivers next year, are you really sure he'd make the Kings and won't just be given away?)

For Nashville it's harder to judge cause goalie trade values fluctuate but for a team that has just Forsberg, turning Saros, Molendyk, $5M in cap space into Fiala, Moore, Lili seems like a great use of assets.

If anyone should be questioning this it's Toronto who trade out a top 10 winger in the league in Marner who will put up at least 90 points per season for the next 5+ years, a bonafide 2nd/3rd pairing RHD who likely has potential to do a lot more for two prospects who aren't NHL proven and aren't top prospects in the game (Bedard/Cellebrini level). Even if Clarke becomes Bouchard (likely his ceiling) this could be seen as a loss for Toronto.
Forum: Armchair-GM17 hours ago
Thread: Big Trade
This offseason would be how I retool the Leafs.

They can play an 11/7 next year (something Berube has used more than any other coach from 2019-2021). Clarke has wicked offensive talent but is still developing into an NHL D. Having 7 D allows him to QB the PP without needing to rely on him to play big minutes at 5V5. If we are chasing a game he can rotate in for Tanev/Desharnais to give more of an offensive push. Otherwise he can just play his 6-8 minutes of PP per night and jump on for some offensive zone draws with Rielly/Zadorov/McCabe instantly making any D pairing an offensive threat (especially after an icing). If he does that 10 times a game that is another 6 minutes of icetime so he's playing 12-14mins a night, a little more if we a chasing a game. Otherwise we just roll the other 6 as normal.

Upfront, Dewar and Holmberg can both pay LW/C/RW so you can add any player to that 4th line to run them out for a shift. Otherwise you just roll the top 9 which has one "star" player Matthews, Reinhart, Nylander on each line.

For the PP you have one of the best net front guys (skill wise) in Tavares, the best bumper guy in the league in Reinhart, Matthews as your primary shooter, Clarke who is just next level at the OHL/AHL as a PP QB who can hopefully transfer that to the NHL quickly (like Bouchard did for Edmonton) and Nylander as the opposite side threat if anyone cheats on Matthews. That is top tier PP personnel and unlike with Marner/Rielly there aren't clear deficiencies in how the whole group fits together. This group is very complimentary in their styles, as long as Reinhart can get used to not being the primary target in the bumper but a secondary threat, this should be an insane PP if run properly.
Forum: Armchair-GMThu. at 7:51 p.m.
Thread: If Clarke isnt available
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ship</b></div><div>a 44 point rookie is your franchise? i know he looks sweet, but gosh damn some of these poverty teams haven't experienced true great players. if they think guys like that are untouchable. it's a shame really. these poverty franchises deserve to know what it's like to have a real franchise player.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>WJC_Enthusiast</b></div><div>He was drafted in 2022 bro</div></div>

Just to put this all into perspective.

Cooley: Drafted 2022 end of 2023-24 season he has 44points
Marner: Drafted 2015 end of 2016-17 season he has 61 points (and missed 9 games)

If you think the guy who has played the last 3 seasons at a 100 point pace isn't more valuable then idk what to tell you.
Forum: Armchair-GMThu. at 4:04 p.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMThu. at 11:16 a.m.
Thread: Blockbuster TOR 3 of 3
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ktownchef</b></div><div>Liljegren is not getting you a 2nd and 4th round picks.

He's a part time player on a team who's defense is suspect at best.

It's been 7 years since he's been drafted. The shine of being a first round pick has worn off.</div></div>

He's analytically very solid. Even his scouting report on capfriendly has him listed as a 2nd line D. His problem in Toronto isn't that he isn't good. It's that he can't play with Rielly and that has really limited him in terms of fitting into the D corps since the 2RD spot has always been filled and he style doesn't match what Toronto wants on their third pair.

When Rielly was out last year and this year he was on the top pair as was pretty dominant. Had 8 points in the 7 games Rielly didn't play this year where he was the #1 for Toronto. Similar story in 2022 I think it was like 15 points in the 23 games Rielly missed (a large reason why Toronto felt they could move on from Sandin).
Forum: Armchair-GMThu. at 11:11 a.m.
Thread: Blockbuster LA 2 of 3
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ktownchef</b></div><div>I fixed my horrible sentences but I agree. Clarke is the future after Drew who is still playing at a high level.</div></div>

Fundamental problem with this idealistic view Kings fans have is that for anyone criticizing how LA's D looked this year, imagine a right side of Doughty/Spence/Clarke. You have 3 offensive D who are all vulnerable in their own zone. I can't see Blake thinking its remotely feasible to enter the season with those three guys. One of them has to move. Its not Doughty and Spence is a sure thing.

It's also just really bad asset management to keep all 3 given that their best skill is being a PP QB, all of their scouting reports have that as their most valuable asset and 1 of them will need to do it on the second unit, and one won't do it at all. Like if you play Clarke and keep Doughty/Spence on the PP then by the end of next year his trade value will plummet, the whole league will see his defensive deficiencies and none of his offensive upside. It's a large reason he wasn't in the NHL full time this year.
Forum: Armchair-GMThu. at 11:07 a.m.
Thread: Blockbuster LA 2 of 3
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Fail4Nail</b></div><div>Defense just got a whole lot worse though..unless Drai is not with the Oilers, this team (specifically defense) won't beat them. Gavrikov-Roy is the most successful shutdown pair against McDavid or Drai. Replacing Roy with Lyubushkin is just such a major downgrade.</div></div>

Lybushkin's defensive metrics (ignoring his time on Buffalo/Anaheim) are among the top 10 in the league. He was on for one 5v5 goal against in the entire Toronto/Boston series while playing on the Leafs' top pair logging big minutes. He is by far a better defensive D than Roy, he just brings absolutely no offense, a complete black hole of offense. The most you'll get from him is a breakout pass, even then he prefers to dump/chip.