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Affectionate_Side_64

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Forum: Armchair-GM3 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>None of this is at all evidence to support his status as a top pair defenceman. Being a highly touted young player means nothing when you are now 30. Scouting reports from when he was in junior means what now?

You gave a hugely long winded pile of used car salesmanship. What are his results? What are his impacts on the game.

When proposing a hypothesis you need numbers and hard facts not past scouting reports, speculation, reputation and nonsense. Find any model that shows him as anything but a below average defenceman. Anything. You like to talk about how much smarter you are, so find something to back it. What's his jfresh card. What does the athletic model him as? Anything. Natural stattrick. Anything.

I have seen several of these models and they match the eye test and results. So to just spoil it for you, none of it is good. And it's because, despite the past projections for Jones, he just isn't that good. Nurse makes over 9, does that mean he's obviously a top pair defender? He was billed as that once upon a time. And despite the very clear fact he has failed to become one, he's paid as one and there are no models that show him as elite despite the reputation. Jones is even worse due to being very poor defensively. All facts bud, go check it out. I suspect you won't bother, and likely because you already know what you'll find. So either you're too stubborn to actually admit you're way off base, or you just really want to fight with people so you take the obvious wrong side just to infuriate people. It's one or the other. If you were here for rational discussion, you'd look into Jones, see he's actually not good and horribly overrated and over paid and you'd just admit you were wrong. Thats how adults handle conversation.

Petty insults and anger are the way of children.</div></div>

Is there anything you'd actually like to share or are you just going to continue on your diatribe? It's not up to me to prove this to you and I'm not going to continue on a wild goose chase to pander to your ego.

I looked into your J fresh charts and learned why you're so misinformed. There's zero consistency between the numbers which would suggest they have about zero reliability. Care to prove me wrong?
Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>What I know and most anyone who actually does research knows there is no evidence suggesting Jones is a top pair defencemen. He is terrible defensively and only middling offensively. His contract was garbage the moment he signed it and no one understood the trade and sign when it happened.

It's not a surprise you have latched onto the single dumbest rumor on the internet. Its a sure fire way to get reasonable people to tell you it's bad. Which is what you hope for, so you can attack with venom. Tried and true pattern of the troll. Find something you know will lure people in and then attack. It's sad</div></div>

He is actually very good defensively, but people who take team possession stats and scale them down to individual players without taking into context his teammates, his usage, and his matchups continually make the same mistakes in evaluating players like schenn, edmundson, benoit, lyubushkin, etc. You were more guilty of this than anyone else, but once they started playing for the leafs you seemed to change your mind time and time again. So what changed?

Do you think it was just a big conspiracy theory to have him selected 4th overall, becoming a top pairing contributor within two years, shutting down one of the greatest offensive teams of all time during a 4 game sweep of the lightning when he was 22, serving as the #1D for a much less talented CBJ team? Scoring 9 points in 10 games that playoffs? Being among the first 3 players selected for team usa along with matthews and kane before the Olympics were canceled? Playing top pairing for the north American all Stars? Acquiring arguably the biggest trade package in league history for a defenseman? Signing one of the biggest contracts to that point in league history? Leading all active players in ATOI in the playoffs, and 2nd only to doughty over the last 5 years in the regular season? Do you thinking he won a ****ing lottery to get to this point?

Do people forget how doughty struggled when the kings were a weaker team? He was worse, on a better team than the hawks have been, is paid 11 mil a year and yet nobody bats an eye. Seth jones has literally been a #1D since he was 20 and that has not changed. Some of his underlying possession stats have changed along with the strength of his team but he's still been top pairing level throughout, and still elite compared to his teammates.

His tools are all very good to ELITE, right down to his size, mobility, puck moving, physicality, shot, offensive and defensive instincts and big minutes endurance. He plays #1 PK and PP, with an embarrassing supporting cast around him, usually cycling through 3 partners a year as chicago trades them away. Chicago's inexperienced forwards and lack of structural play regularly hang him out to dry and yet he still performs at a high level, playing huge minutes in all situations.

Do you remember how good mccabe looked this playoffs after coming from Chicago? Or Benoit coming from Anaheim? Lyubushkin from Arizona? Edmundson from Washington? Schenn from Vancouver? People said the same thing about all of them using the same data and were proven wrong almost every time. Now imagine a player better in EVERY facet of the game being brought into a team with the talent and structure that the leafs have. There's your minute munching pietrangelo/doughty level playoff D. Yes, that's the level he's on based on past playoff performance.

He's overpaid so people like yourself take that to mean he's "bad" (lol), but he's overpaid at 9.5 mil, not 7. You literally have no clue what you're talking about and you prove that to be true any time you make a claim about a defenseman who plays on a poor team. That's because you dont actually know how they're playing and make bizarre claims based on starts you clearly dont undersrand how to contextualize.

There you go playing the victim again as well. Attacking with venom? You certainly have a flair for the dramatic. How about not making claims about things you don't understand, only to play the victim when you get called on your BS? "You're just a mean troll! You're out to get me!!!"

You're easily the biggest clown on this site and you should have learned the error of your ways YEARS ago. Goodbye!
Forum: Armchair-GM13 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>Seth Jones is awful. You have taken out a top 5 player at his position and replaced with the worst contract in the game. Chychrun is awfully overrated as well. Senator fans are happy to see him go. Is this Blueline better? Marginally, but it's way way more expensive. And the offense is much worse now.</div></div>

There's no substance here as usual. All the evidence points to Seth jones being a true #1, overpaid by probably 1 - 1.5. Neither player is overrated, you literally know nothing about them and just repeat things you here from people on the internet.

As I've told you many times, do your own research and stop repeating things you know nothing about. A good place to start might be capfriendly's scouting tool, it says a lot that most people already know, but it's a good way to nip ignorance like yours in the bud. Move along now!
Forum: Armchair-GM14 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ginandtacos</b></div><div>Nobody is tying up a retention slot for 7 years, the retention is a non-starter. Other than that I'd take this package in a heartbeat. Other CHI fans value Jones more highly than I do. Above-average player who can definitely improve a contender but the contract is a nightmare waiting to happen once his play starts to decline.</div></div>

You've had a retention slot tied up for the last 3 years during your peak selling season. You also have 3 retention slots, which are there to retain on contracts in a trade. This is the easy choice for one of those slots. What 3 overlapping situations would be a better use of those slots than this?

The "retention slots" thing is a tired narrative that has never actually handcuffed a team, because 3 retention slots is more than enough for the purpose of typical nhl trades. Regardless, this would be the best use of a retention slot you could have given the final outcome for your team.

This really is a no-brainer for the blackhawks, I promise you.
Forum: Armchair-GM14 hours ago
Thread: Marner
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ledge_And_Dairy</b></div><div>Huh? That is simply your own opinion. What is factual is both Marner and Theodore are entering the final years of their respective contracts and both have relatively similar value. You literally stated in your last post that Marner has more because he has an extension. Which A) he doesn't, B) is irrelevant, and C) the exact same argument can be made for Theodore signing in Toronto.

He would improve their offense but I disagree on him being their best offensive player. But this is a pointless thing to argue about

Roy is a luxury at 4C but there is nothing stopping them from playing him at 2LW like Stephenson did. Do you not understand that Roy has way more trade value than Holmberg? Move Roy up to the top 6 and slide Howden to 4C. Just because he is paid too much to be a 4C in your mind does not mean he has less value.

They can literally just re-sign Marchessault instead, and they would be a better team than the one you are proposing. Marchessault + Theodore + Roy + Howden &gt;&gt;&gt; Marner + Holmberg + Gregor</div></div>

It's not factual that they have relatively similar value, I know this to be true because there are no facts you can share to prove that. I'm not saying he has an extension yet, I'm saying an extension would come with the trade. Are you daft? Coming with an extension is not irrelevant, it was you yourself thar questioned his value because he was a rental, was that irrelevant by the same measure?

Howden is not even playing center, so your solution to improve the team is to simply throw their forwards in a blender? Maybe they just need to hire you as coach to bring them back to contention?

I'm done arguing with you, you're free to ignore the abundance of evidence that marner is a top 3RW in the game and claim its just my opinion if you'd like. Small victories I guess!

My opinion is based on the evidence that he has been a better offensive player than anyone on the VGK roster by a wide margin, that my friend is what you call fact.

I already told you I did know roy is more valuable, did you confuse this for a 1 for 1 trade? Showbke the roster you're proposing, because one of us has actually looked into this already. Not to mention marner and marchessault are at very different parts of their careers.
Forum: Armchair-GM17 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>If this is simply "common sense" to you...why hasn't it happened? The rebuild has been going for 2 years now. His trade value was FAR higher when he was younger?

Hawks can get picks in other ways. Anders Lee, JGP, we can get draft capital in many other ways. Why do we have to create a massive hole hurting our prospect development?</div></div>

It's literally happened with everyone but Jones. It will likely happen with him as well if the opportunity arises, but clearly the contract makes that more complicated than any other deal that's been made. I'm done trying to explain the obvious, you're trying to set yourself up for a window of success years and years away. It's not Jones' veteran presence that you should be worried about. That's something you can find a hell of a lot cheaper.
Forum: Armchair-GM17 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Kyle_Davidson</b></div><div>My brother in Christ I am literally telling you the Blackhawks would not do this trade and explained why.</div></div>

I am telling you they would and explained why. Despite your username you are not Kyle Davidson, you are not the blackhawks, and not only is your stance on this incredibly flawed, it also ignores everything that we've watched happen with your team.

I really don't think you've given this much thought. That package could land you a top 5 pick. I think its pretty conceivable picks 2-4 go demidov, silayev, Lindstrom. If Montreal misses on demidov and Lindstrom you can probably ship them that package to move up and grab levshunov.

Regardless of whether you choose to stay, in 5 years you have 8.2 mil in cap space and a top pairing D / top line forward instead of a massively overpaid 35 year old Seth jones. You get your veteran experience from elderstatesmen in FA, like you've been doing so far, Kyle!

Don't act as if you're in a position to tell me anything if you can't apply simple logic. YOU ARE IN YEAR 2 OF A SCORCHED EARTH REBUILD, YOU ARE NOT ABOUT TO TAKE A MASSIVE LEAP FORWARD NEXT SEASON, THINGS ARE NOT ABOUT TO GET EASIER ANYTIME SOON.

Please try to understand what that means before telling me what the blackhawks would do... SMFH
Forum: Armchair-GM19 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Kyle_Davidson</b></div><div>That not a bad place to start in a Jones trade, but it won’t get it done. First of all, the hawks retaining on Jones is not likely to happen, and the only draft pick the hawks would be interested in is the first rounder.

There’s also the issue of the NMC.</div></div>

That probably does get it done, and the blackhawks would probably be willing to retain for that package, just like they retained on the last defenseman they traded to the leafs (2 mil x 3 years which comes off the books after next season).

The blackhawks are interested in draft capital in general, as well as clearing future cap for their growing core. Jones originally left CBJ to escape a rebuild, and as common sense would tell you he'd probably rather be competing in the playoffs. For that reason there's basically zero chance he turns down a trade to stay in Chicago, instead following his fellow American friend who also waived to join the leafs. There's a pretty good American center in Toronto as well...
Forum: Armchair-GM20 hours ago
Thread: What Could Be
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Sprak</b></div><div>Jones signed a max-term, NMC deal with a terrible Chicago team that only won 28 games, so put two and two together here</div></div>

28 games? How long was the season that year? Convenient way to phrase it. It's not as if he had free reign over where to play. He did know that CBJ was locked into rebuilding, and CHI was looking to make one last run with toews, Kane and Keith. They also had some promising young guys like debrincat, Hagel, strome and dach.

I certainly don't imagine he expected a scorched earth rebuild one year after chicago made that trade and signed him to that contract. His situation is not unlike karlssons in Pittsburgh or chychruns in Ottawa, and I'm confident if a trade to a better team available he'd waive his, not the teams NMC.
Forum: Armchair-GM20 hours ago
Thread: What Could Be
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div></div>

My man I read your post. I read the last 17. You DESPERATELY WANT SETH JONES. I get it. We don't want your futures. We don't want your Marner. We'll take Matthews.[/quote]

Well the fact this is now 4 times I've needed to tell you that it's not marner you'd be getting probably says enough. Thankfully for you and your fellow blackhawks fans, KD seems like a smart guy and understands what a successful scorched earth rebuild entails.

The most obvious rule that even my 10 year old nephew can understand? Unloading massive contracts while the player's value is at its highest, and before they cripple the future cap situation thae should be meant for the core you're building. And you get incredibly value futures to fit your timeline in return!

Not that complicated, so don't embarrass your fellow fans by saying "we" as if you're involved in the decision making. Food for thought for those who think!
Forum: Armchair-GM21 hours ago
Thread: What Could Be
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I couldn't disagree more. Player development is MORE important than having futures or even the #1 OA pick.

You're talking about "in 5 years". The biggest issue I have with the whole trade Seth Jones idea is that no one is listening to what Kyle Davidson is saying...AND DOING! His actions speak far louder than anyone's words. You don't think first saying we need character guys like Foligno and then overpaying for Foligno is his main focus for the next two years? We NEED Seth Jones to be that guy on the back end. We don't need Marner. He's a luxury that that's a nice and would I want him on my team...yeah, BUT we don't NEED him. We don't need that many more futures either. We've got 12 picks 1-3rd rounds in the next 3 years.

We're in prospect development mode. Give us 2 year contracts for Good, but not great veterans. That's what we need and we'll overpay them in AAV if then meet our term demands....just like Foligno and Dickinson.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>I couldn't disagree more. Player development is MORE important than having futures or even the #1 OA pick.

You're talking about "in 5 years". The biggest issue I have with the whole trade Seth Jones idea is that no one is listening to what Kyle Davidson is saying...AND DOING! His actions speak far louder than anyone's words. You don't think first saying we need character guys like Foligno and then overpaying for Foligno is his main focus for the next two years? We NEED Seth Jones to be that guy on the back end. We don't need Marner. He's a luxury that that's a nice and would I want him on my team...yeah, BUT we don't NEED him. We don't need that many more futures either. We've got 12 picks 1-3rd rounds in the next 3 years.

We're in prospect development mode. Give us 2 year contracts for Good, but not great veterans. That's what we need and we'll overpay them in AAV if then meet our term demands....just like Foligno and Dickinson.</div></div>

You keep missing the point, you'd be getting the futures that a marner trade would return, not marner. We have been watching what Kyle Davidson has been doing, and that's been trading every player of value who doesn't fit your timeline: debrincat, Hagel, dach, Kane, mccabe, etc.

Again, you'd be getting the futures from a marner return, not marner himself. You'd also open up that cap now to sign good, not great players on short term deals, say pesce at 3 x 8 mil, or Martinez at 3 x 7 mil. Those are players who can help your young prospects grow while not hindering the roster when they're ready to compete.

Debrincat was traded for korchinski, a 39th overall pick, and a 3rd.

Hagel was traded for Oliver Moore, katchouk, raddysh and this year's 20th overall pick.

Dach was traded for nazar and a 3rd

Mccabe was traded with 2 mil retained by 3 years for a 1st and a 2nd rounder

A 2nd and cap space was traded for Sam rinzel

Those players were all replaced with good not great players like you mentioned. Why would you view Jones as being the exception, especially when he could potentially return the most value, while also representing the biggest salary cap obstacle down the road when you're ready to compete? When he requested a trade from a rebuilding team that led him to chicago in the first place?

Nothing Kyle Davidson has done supports your theory, quite the opposite actually. This should be the biggest no brainer of the bunch but here we are. Also, you're in year 2 of a scorched earth rebuild. The more opportunities you have to acquire top end talent the better.

You know Seth jones won't be a top end talent worth his cap when you're ready to compete, but the pieces he'd return likely would be. It should be obvious, but in 5 years when all of those players are off their ELCs and you need to add considerable assets to clear Jones cap space (if you even can at that point), you'll probably wish you had acquired young players who'd just be entering their prime to go along with that 8.5 mil in critical cap space.

You do not need a #1 defenseman in his prime to be the tutor for those young players, nor is that what he signed up to be. This should be obvious for blackhawks fans so your backwards outlook on this is pretty baffling.

Expect a Jones trade to happen is all I can say.[/quote]
Forum: Armchair-GM23 hours ago
Thread: What Could Be
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>But we're creating holes on our team that severely negatively affect our current prospects. It just doesn't make ANY sense at all for us to trade away Seth Jones unless he asked for a trade...which he hasn't to anyone's knowledge. That's never been reported anywhere. Just speculation...like most things. Hawks have futures. Hawks are in prospect development mode. We NEED Serh Jones. I think Kyle Davidson goes out and gets a guy like Anders Lee to help the forward group develop. IF the Hawks were 2-3 years down the road and this whole Marner situation came up...I'd be more open, but that's 2-3 years away. can't rush the rebuild.

Demidov is the guy. The argument for Levshunov is ironic considering you keep trading for Seth Jones. The ONLY argument for Levshunov is because the Hawks are already SO thin at RD. It's our weakest position in our farm system.</div></div>

Of course it makes a ton of sense. He doesn't fit your timeline and will be a massive roadblock in 5 years when you're ready to contend and Bedard, korchinski, moore, nazar, vlasic, this year's 2nd overall pick etc. Are all ready for their big time extensions.

If you trade Jones then that's when you bring in vets from FA to support your younger players, it's happening right before your eyes.

And also how the hell is trading Jones rushing the rebuild? That's the exact opposite and not rushing the rebuild is the entire point. Considering he literally requested a trade from CBJ because they were rebuilding to end up in Chicago, you don't think he'd prefer to be on a team with hopes of competing while he's in his prime?

Not sure why you think Jones wouldn't be available like any of the other players KD has traded that don't fit your timeline.
Forum: Armchair-GM23 hours ago
Thread: What Could Be
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>athrin</b></div><div>ya because 2 teams competing for the same playoff spots always trade top 4 dman to each other.. chych aint being traded in division it that simple if you do not have the intelligence to understand that, i feel sorry for you.</div></div>

The same playoff spot? Lol, that's wishful thinking. You have one year left of chychrun and it's pretty obvious you should trade him with Sanderson and Chabot already signed long term. That would also give you the cap space to sign a tanev, meaning you're likely even better this year after completing this trade, but most certainly better long term.

You know what happened the last time Dorian blew his load and splurged on a big piece with no realistic chance of resigning him? He had to ship him off for much less than this when he sent debrincat to Detroit, a team you're actually competing with for a playoff spot. Chycrun isn't going to be the reason you guys place ahead of the leafs next year, and with the obvious changes you need to make this would be a great start....
Forum: Armchair-GM23 hours ago
Thread: What Could Be
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div>Or we draft the best available like Kyle Davidson has said he would and draft Demidov who's an elite 2-way winger...remind you of anyone? He also fits our rebuild timeline...Demidov that is.</div></div>

Demidov is far from a lock for 2nd best BPA. To take a Russian 2nd overall I'd expect more than MHL production, and to take a winger 2nd overall you'd need to be pretty confident he's on the level of kuch or kaprizov, which I really don't see.

I understand that it got overlooked, but I tried to explain that this would be a 3 way trade where chicago is getting a considerable package of futures from the team who acquires marner. Marner should be worth more with retention so this would be a win for chicago.
Forum: Armchair-GM23 hours ago
Thread: If Marner Wont Waive
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>

Appreciate the feedback. Disagree on the 21 man roster thing though. Worst case you'd have to have 2 players be injured simultaneously to be forced into playing down a man for a game, which even then isn't the end of the world for a team that should be a playoff lock. You can immediately bring in emergency call ups to fill those roles, and regardless of whether they're on the roster or not beforehand, they'd only be getting into the lineup due to injury regardless.

Injuries are pretty much a guarantee, and that typically means cap will open up regardless. Ideally though you should be maximizing your starting lines in advance of the playoffs, when cap restrictions no longer apply. Is it really worth losing out on stephenson just so you can carry someone like weber or Gregor as well? Teams like the knights, rangers and panthers have all employed a similar strategy in recent years to maximize their playoff rosters.

That said, this is just another said reality of trying to remain competitive with our current cap allocation, so everything comes back to marner at the end of the day.</div></div>