Always looked to exclude just use their full career

Kucherov has progressed at a better rate than Marner who can't keep up with Kucherov considering he's had a multi 60 almost 70 goal scorer and still can't match Kucherov in assists again take the L and stop embarrassing yourself.

You mean Kucherov's 2 Art Ross trophies, Hart Trophy, 2 Cup wins and a Cup Finalist?

Kucherov also led the NHL in playoff scoring twice. 🙄

Aren't you tired of getting mentally demolished yet take the L and please for the love of God stop making yourself look like an idiot

What?

Whether Marner should have gotten paid so much as an RFA or what he'll make on his next contract does not change the fact that today, he's not overpaid at 10.9M. Maybe you just brought up Kucherov because of the kous' playmaking comment but the whole point of his response was to say that Marner is not currently overpaid. That's why I brought up Kucherov's cap hit if that's what you were calling a diversion.

You're absolutely right, that if he cared more about winning than lining his pockets he would have taken less.



Endorsements are a benefit of playing in certain markets and/or being marketable. It's a factor for free agents looking to sign somewhere or RFAs wanting to leave money on the table. The team isn't the one paying though in the end.

Just as tax benefits are a benefit of playing in a certain market. If you count tax breaks against the cap because it unfair to certain teams you fairly must count endorsement potential against team too. Assinine take.

If you're looking to compare cap hit vs the income players make from their salaries then it's not. A place like Anaheim has a high tax rate, but doesn't have the same endorsement opportunities as Toronto. If you're looking at all the low-tax states, the endorsement opportunities aren't all going to be the same. The most marketable players are going to get endorsements, wherever they play.

Would be difficult to compare players on the same team, let alone on different teams that have different opportunities and tax rates.

So The Toronto, Montreal, etc get all the advantages by getting a cap break for tax purposes but not take a hit on endorsements ok

Ahhh so your all in on giving Canadian teams an advantage and F***everyone else. Gotcha assinine opinion

No, that's not what I'm saying . I'm saying if you want to compare two players' pay, you don't look at endorsements.

If you want to compare how much Point vs Kucherov vs Tkachuk vs Marner vs Pastrnak vs Panarin are getting paid, you don't factor in endorsements. You just look at their projected income. I said nothing about changing how the cap works, and the one that brought up endorsements was you.

Then you don't look at taxes either. No you said the cap should be post tax so if you go post tax not adding Endorsements is moronic. What you suggest basically favors Canadian teams exclusively.

How is not adding endorsements moronic?

1) If you added endorsements you can't even compare Point vs Kucherov unless you know how much each guy is making off of endorsements.

2) Endorsements are not part of the NHL contract. If want to say a guy is not worth his contract, you're not looking at his endorsements.

If you don't think teams like say Toronto don't use endorsements as incentives to get players to sign and cheaper you'rea fool . Does it always work? No of course not . But Toronto is famous for it they even brought the CEO of Canadian Tire to the meeting they had with Stamkos last time to try to convince him and tell him how much he could make pimping 💩. So again you're in favor of making it advantageous for Canadian teams where the endorsements are far more readily available.

I never said that Toronto doesn't try to pitch to free agents or players in general, that if they sign in Toronto, they'll have endorsement opportunities. No one is talking about incentives for the player to sign. Good weather could be an incentive for a player to sign. Marner's endorsement opportunities were not enough to make him sign for less, despite him being an RFA. All of that is irrelevant to what I'm talking about. I'm not saying to change how the cap hit works.

All I'm saying is if you want to compare two players' contracts or say a player is worth his contract or not, you're going to need to look at income (from the NHL contract) so that you can get a standard and compare. If you want to say "Cap hit is cap hit. Mr. X is not worth his cap hit, so he's not worth his contract" that's fair, but there's still an argument to be made for looking at income so that you standardize the numbers and compare. Otherwise, whose contract are you using as a standard?

Endorsements are income because he's on said team just as tax breaks are so, doing an after tax comparison and adding endorsements is just garbage . Every location and team has their advantages and disadvantages . Take their cap hit period as a comparison giving a team like Toronto the advantage of not counting taxes against the cap while also not counting endorsements heavily favors all Canadian teams. Either you add all those factors or none. You don't get to have it both ways.

Endorsements don't apply to every player on the same team the same way, so it's not the same thing. Matthews' endorsements aren't the same as Marner's or Tavares' or Max Domi's. There are probably guys with no endorsements on the team. The tax applies to their income in the same way. Endorsements are also not all local either. So, there's no argument to be made for including endorsements when you want to say if a player is living up to his contract, you wouldn't even be able to do it. So, it's not having it both ways. You want to include all factors for a player signing a contract then you would include Crosby's superstition, how? If you say, well only monetary factors, it's clear that in Marner's case, endorsements were clearly a non-factor.

You said Marner is overpaid (meaning he's not worth his 10.9M cap hit), how did you come to that conclusion?

By AAV he's the 9th highest paid player is he the 9th best in the league? No.

How do you know he's not the 9th best player in the league?

My opinion as that's what it is I'd put him about 15-20 range

Okay.

My take is that goaltenders generally speaking aren't getting paid like forwards, and defenseman aren't typically getting paid a ton either unless they produce offense. Most of the guys you are probably putting ahead of him are the remaining top Cs (Crosby, Barkov, etc,,,), and maybe Tkachuk and Kaprizov from the wingers that produced less, Makar on defense. So, even if you don't think he's a top 9 player, he is a top-9 producer and since what gets a player paid is offense, I wouldn't say he's not worth his cap hit.

In the 5, seasons since he signed his contract, he's 8th in points per game (Rantanen is 9th), and in the last 3 years he's tied for 7th with 2 other guys (Pastrnak and Rantanen). Right behind them are Tkachuk and Kaprisov. The only guys that have lower AAVs now than him are Tkachuk, Kucherov, Draisaitl, and Rantanen, and Kaprisov. The latter three will all get 11M+ more than likely, and Marner will get a big pay raise himself as well, but at 10.9M he's lived up to the cap hit. I doubt he'll live up to his next contract though but it is what it is.

I would say that in the last 3-years, Rantanen, Pastrnak, Marner, Tkachuk, and Kaprisov are all pretty close as players, they all just bring a different things to the table. Could probably lump in Panarin with them but he's at 1.29 vs Tkachuk and Kaprisov's 1.25, the other three are at 1.27.

Point is third in the league in Goals Behind Mathews and pasta over the last 3 years plays center I'll take Point .

Point playing C would factor in to his contract and trade value but not really relevant since we aren't talking about who we would select/rather have.

By goals per game, Point is 9th (8th if you kick out Landeskog for playing under 100 games), Marner isn't a goal scorer much of a goal score but he's 6th in assists. Since goals are more important (in-game) and for pay, I would put Point ahead of Marner if his production was close, but it isn't. Point is ranked 21st in points. Marner is 7th tied with Pastrnak and Rantanen. I would pay Pastrnak the most then, Rantanen, then Marner. Rantanen and Marner are likely to get more than Pastrnak since they are signing 2-seasons after with a rising cap, but I wouldn't pay Marner more than Rantanen.